Clay Bar Alternative

[Z71_Denali]

i won't name companies, but its called the Opti-Eraser. its a dense foam block that’s laminated with an advanced acrylic resin on the two largest sides. This high-tech resin essentially shaves off above-surface contaminants that would otherwise interfere with the proper bonding of your wax, sealant or coating. they claim its the evolution of the clay bar.

 

Any of you pros have experience with one of these? If Adam's could get there hands on an American made one, and approve of it after testing, i'd buy it

 

Edited March 21, 2013 by 2010TexasEdition

[Team Adam's]

We've tested poli elastic media for awhile now and haven't found a single compound that works as well as traditional clay without introducing damage. Towels, sponges, and a host of other configurations. I probably have about a dozen of them in our test cabinet right now.

 

If its fine enough it won't mar, but then it won't decontaminate as well. If it decontaminates well then the paint is likely marred up when you're done.

 

We continue to play with various grades and compositions, but nothing has been on a level where we'd consider selling it to our customers with any confidence.

 

One area it makes sense is if the vehicle is already so trashed it will need to be polished anyways, then the introduction of more light damage isn't an issue. Feel free to ask Chase about what a poly towel did to the hood of Adam's jeep when he was here for training last month.

[ihaveacamaro]

i won't name companies, but its called the Opti-Eraser. its a dense foam block that’s laminated with an advanced acrylic resin on the two largest sides. This high-tech resin essentially shaves off above-surface contaminants that would otherwise interfere with the proper bonding of your wax, sealant or coating. they claim its the evolution of the clay bar.

 

Any of you pros have experience with one of these? If Adam's could get there hands on an American made one, and approve of it after testing, i'd buy it

 

 

I used this and have a review of it on my youtube channel. I don't recommend this company's particular clay alternative, but I do like another company's version.

 

The popular clay alternative towel in the fine grade is the one that I am a huge fan of and use on every detail instead of clay.

Edited March 21, 2013 by ihaveacamaro

[ihaveacamaro]

 

If its fine enough it won't mar, but then it won't decontaminate as well. If it decontaminates well then the paint is likely marred up when you're done.

 

 

Wouldn't you say that's true with normal clay too though?

[Team Adam's]

No... and heres how our testing has been done to show it:

 

A section (last test was on the rear deck of a daily driven C5 vette/black) is 'clayed' with an alternative media leaving a control section masked off to compare.

 

After using the alternative the mask is pulled to inspect for additional damage.

 

If additional damage is noted that is beyond what would be expected from traditional clay we know its too aggressive.

 

If no additional damage is noted we then mask off a part of the alternative area to keep it untouched and hit the remaining area with the same media again to give it a chance to pull up more contamination (if any)

 

The masks are then pulled off all but the control section and the area is hit with traditional fine grade clay to see if more contamination can be pulled up.

 

Our findings thus far:

 

A fine grade alternative media does not fully decontaminate the paint, even with 2 passes, as the traditional clay continues to pull contamination.

 

A heavier grade will fully decon the paint, but it introduces far more damage than the control or than what would be reasonable to expect with traditional clay.

 

I get that these alternatives are very popular right now (Detailers are very much a flavor of the month animal) but in our customers hands I'm not confident in selling these as true alternatives to clay YET due to their issues.

 

I can't sell this to a guy with a $100,000 resto-rod with near perfect paint and tell him he'll see the same/equivalent results as traditional clay. I could sell the more aggressive version to customers doing heavier restoration work, but honestly what percentage of our customer base is working on something so hammered out more damage could be considered acceptable.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Dylan@Adams

[ihaveacamaro]

No... and heres how our testing has been done to show it:

 

A section (last test was on the rear deck of a daily driven C5 vette/black) is 'clayed' with an alternative media leaving a control section masked off to compare.

 

After using the alternative the mask is pulled to inspect for additional damage.

 

If additional damage is noted that is beyond what would be expected from traditional clay we know its too aggressive.

 

If no additional damage is noted we then mask off a part of the alternative area to keep it untouched and hit the remaining area with the same media again to give it a chance to pull up more contamination (if any)

 

The masks are then pulled off all but the control section and the area is hit with traditional fine grade clay to see if more contamination can be pulled up.

 

Our findings thus far:

 

A fine grade alternative media does not fully decontaminate the paint, even with 2 passes, as the traditional clay continues to pull contamination.

 

A heavier grade will fully decon the paint, but it introduces far more damage than the control or than what would be reasonable to expect with traditional clay.

 

I get that these alternatives are very popular right now (Detailers are very much a flavor of the month animal) but in our customers hands I'm not confident in selling these as true alternatives to clay YET due to their issues.

 

I can't sell this to a guy with a $100,000 resto-rod with near perfect paint and tell him he'll see the same/equivalent results as traditional clay. I could sell the more aggressive version to customers doing heavier restoration work, but honestly what percentage of our customer base is working on something so hammered out more damage could be considered acceptable.

 

Great post Dylan, glad to see all the thought and tests that go on behind the scenes

 

I do have a few questions though:

 

1) What do you mean by 2 passes? Like 2 swipes? Or multiple swipes, and then multiple swipes again?

 

2) Have you tried the opposite like using clay for 2 passes and then using a clay towel after that to see if the clay towel would do the same in the opposite scenario?

[The Ryan]

Yea, I'm not a fan of these things at all.. Either they marr the crud out of the paint, or they don't work well enough to justify the purchase.

[Team Adam's]

 

1) What do you mean by 2 passes? Like 2 swipes? Or multiple swipes, and then multiple swipes again?

 

I mean wiping the towel on the surface in the manner which someone would use it to decon the paint in a normal process.

 

2) Have you tried the opposite like using clay for 2 passes and then using a clay towel after that to see if the clay towel would do the same in the opposite scenario?

 

Yes... claying first with fine grade then following up with the fine media and the more aggressive media has been done. The fine didn't pull up anything additional, the medium did on more contaminated panels, but then there was more damage introduced.

[Team Adam's]

Yea, I'm not a fan of these things at all.. Either they marr the crud out of the paint, or they don't work well enough to justify the purchase.

 

They have their place... the BMW I just did for example would've been perfect! It was already at a point where additional marring wouldn't have been noticable or have any impact on the time it would take to correct.

 

On something like the 55 Chevy Bel Air custom we had in last weekend though it makes no sense. The paint was 90% flawless and had a few small spots of overspray. Clay did the job fine where the media we're working with would've required correction.

 

What I'm trying to find in this category is a balance between ability to decontaminate without introducing unnecessary damage. Like I said earlier I've been playing with NUMEROUS poly compounds and none have satisfied both categories yet.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Dylan@Adams

[ihaveacamaro]

I mean wiping the towel on the surface in the manner which someone would use it to decon the paint in a normal process.

 

 

 

Yes... claying first with fine grade then following up with the fine media and the more aggressive media has been done. The fine didn't pull up anything additional, the medium did on more contaminated panels, but then there was more damage introduced.

 

Gotcha thanks for the info! I have already done a few tests of my own (you know how I am), but looks like I'll be doing some more

[Pureshine]

I will stick with my clay I have tried most of these new products and was not impressed with them. Ya saved me about 10min in time but they all left marring on the paint. Claying doesn't really take that long.

[Z71_Denali]

good to hear! i'll keep my hard earned money

[Team Adam's]

By no means am I discouraging anyone from trying them if they're interested, just as a company our stance at this point is we haven't identified one that is TRULY a clay replacement in the way we'd like to see it.

 

We continue to work on and test these things (thats what 99% of my days consist of here) so there may come a time where we can get it dialed in. Its always good, if your curious, to try something like this for yourself.

[camaro2ssblack]

By no means am I discouraging anyone from trying them if they're interested, just as a company our stance at this point is we haven't identified one that is TRULY a clay replacement in the way we'd like to see it.

 

We continue to work on and test these things (thats what 99% of my days consist of here) so there may come a time where we can get it dialed in. Its always good, if your curious, to try something like this for yourself.

 

Sound advice there. I for one appreciate the fact that you are constantly testing and trust your opinions to be genuine. What works for one, may not work for another and vice versa. As you mentioned earlier, the condition of the vehicle and the goals of the detailer pretty much make the decision. If time is money and your polishing anyway, you cannot go wrong with some of the better alternatives out there. If your a weekend warrior, save your cash for other things more important.

[Chase@InsanePaint]

Ok. So here's my two cents......

 

As a guy who does this by PROFESSION & FOR PASSION of automobiles.....I've been detailing for longer than some people on this forum have been alive. I'm not saying I know everything, because I DON'T, I'm still constantly learning and evolving. And I'm VERY MUCH in search mode, always looking for a way to improve and grow, and I'm incredibly open-minded!! THAT BEING SAID.

 

I've seen & heard detailers say things like "Oh my gawd, this is the best thing ever." Or "Dude, there's no other option, you have to do this." Or "Man it's the wave of the future." And I get that progression is the name of the game, I TOTALLY understand that. I get it, I truly do.

 

But this is an UNNECESSARY evolution. And plain and simple, clay bar is still THE BEST way (after personally using a few of these towels) to remove contaminants, safely, effectively, and thoroughly. PERIOD. I'm not gonna repeat everything Dylan just said. But he's dead on. THE TIME YOU SAVE BY USING THE MORE AGGRESSIVE NANO-CLAY (or whatever the hell those stupid things are called) YOU SPEND THAT MUCH LONGER IN POLISHING, CORRECTING ALL THE CRAP YOU JUST SCREWED UP!!!! Makes no sense whatsoever. If you're looking to work against yourself, hell, go drive your clean car through the mud, pull back in the driveway and repeat the wash process!!! It's the same philosophy and that makes no sense at all to me.....?? I don't understand at all why you would intentionally harm the clearcoat?

 

I'm not saying anyone is WRONG here. If you wanna jack stuff up to fix it, BE MY GUEST. I ain't mad atcha playa, lol. But I won't do it. In my experience nothing touches the way a clay bar works, incredibly efficient and incredibly safe. The detailing profession, at times, brings about "new fads" or "bandwagon" products from time to time. And this is apparently one of those products (no different than the infomercials with "NuFinish - the once a year wax!"). Every once in awhile there's a product that's revolutionary.....but this ain't it people. Do as ya please.....

[Faze]

I spend A LOT of time at a friends detail shop. He's got one of them special towels. Personally I will say this. Yes its a neat concept, 2 it does last a bit longer than clay. But in all honesty I've had to make at least 2 or 3 extra passes with this towel before cause it missed stuff. Clay has never let me down, and plus you can see what you are pulling off the surface with clay. But with that lil towel nope... Even he's bought a few clays in the past and recently.

[Team Adam's]

I will add this as well... we are testing and researching the media because we like the idea of being able to sell something not controlled by Automagic/ITW as clay is. The patent extensions and legal BS surrounding clay sales in the US seems like it will never go away. It cramps our style a little simply because we don't get to control where the clay is coming from, like right now coming from Japan.

 

I'm hoping at some point we identify a poly compound and configuration that works to what we would consider our standards for a product like this.

 

Often times there is grumblings on this forum and others from members who think simply because we don't sell a particular product its purely out of bias that we don't recommend it. Not at all the case. Fact is (and I'm sure you can all see this) we are rarely the first company into any one particular category. Its because of the exhaustive amount of testing we do to enter the market saying "Our product works!" and so that we can in good conscious back it with a 110% satisfaction guarantee.

 

Our development timelines are LONG! Deep Wheel Cleaner took years, Quick Sealant was something like 18 months, the Interior Detailer and Tire Product currently in development have been a long time coming... Project: Patriot has been a 2 year development. We don't rush anything.

 

This category is another one of those type of products... long before the popularity of the poly towels we were testing poly elastic media for decontamination. While this stuff is on everyones radar now we were looking at it long before most people were aware it existed.

 

There may come a point and time where we decide its not worth pursuing further, or we may get it dialed in, but we just won't put something out there until we're absolutely happy with it and are sure our customers will be to.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Dylan@Adams

[Quiksilver5882]

Interesting thread... I used one of the towel versions on some glass the other day on a 2000 Nissan Sentra. The glass was pretty nasty and it passed the baggie test. I have yet to try the towel vs. clay on paint.

[Dv3andrs]

Yet another reason I support purchasing from you guys Dylan, you do all the testing and put out a product that is easy to use and doesn't cause more work than anybody was originally setting out to do. Keep up the awesome work!

[Team Adam's]

Interesting thread... I used one of the towel versions on some glass the other day on a 2000 Nissan Sentra. The glass was pretty nasty and it passed the baggie test. I have yet to try the towel vs. clay on paint.

 

This was actually a thought I had - we could roll out an aggressive version of this just for glass, so paint isn't a concern. Just didn't think the pricing would justify it. They aren't cheap to make.

[camaro2ssblack]

I will add this as well... we are testing and researching the media because we like the idea of being able to sell something not controlled by Automagic/ITW as clay is. The patent extensions and legal BS surrounding clay sales in the US seems like it will never go away. It cramps our style a little simply because we don't get to control where the clay is coming from, like right now coming from Japan.

 

I'm hoping at some point we identify a poly compound and configuration that works to what we would consider our standards for a product like this.

 

Often times there is grumblings on this forum and others from members who think simply because we don't sell a particular product its purely out of bias that we don't recommend it. Not at all the case. Fact is (and I'm sure you can all see this) we are rarely the first company into any one particular category. Its because of the exhaustive amount of testing we do to enter the market saying "Our product works!" and so that we can in good conscious back it with a 110% satisfaction guarantee.

 

Our development timelines are LONG! Deep Wheel Cleaner took years, Quick Sealant was something like 18 months, the Interior Detailer and Tire Product currently in development have been a long time coming... Project: Patriot has been a 2 year development. We don't rush anything.

 

This category is another one of those type of products... long before the popularity of the poly towels we were testing poly elastic media for decontamination. While this stuff is on everyones radar now we were looking at it long before most people were aware it existed.

 

There may come a point and time where we decide its not worth pursuing further, or we may get it dialed in, but we just won't put something out there until we're absolutely happy with it and are sure our customers will be to.

 

So much more informative and tactful than the response we got from the other "professional" in this thread. Thanks Dylan

[Chase@InsanePaint]

LOL. Dude ^^ I know that's aimed at me. I'm not an idiot.

 

I'm just giving my opinion. I'm so easy to get along with, please don't turn things upside down. Nothing was aimed at you, and I will absolutely NEVER claim to know everything. I really hope you don't misinterpret my reply, nor my intentions. Let's keep this easy and civil bro. Deal?

[ArmyAcadia09]

LOL. Dude ^^ I know that's aimed at me. I'm not an idiot.

 

I'm just giving my opinion. I'm so easy to get along with, please don't turn things upside down. Nothing was aimed at you, and I will absolutely NEVER claim to know everything. I really hope you don't misinterpret my reply, nor my intentions. Let's keep this easy and civil bro. Deal?

 

Was a good response in my book. See nothing wrong with multiple opinions

[Chase@InsanePaint]

Ok. So here's my two cents......

 

As a guy who does this by PROFESSION & FOR PASSION of automobiles.....I've been detailing for longer than some people on this forum have been alive. I'm not saying I know everything, because I DON'T, I'm still constantly learning and evolving. And I'm VERY MUCH in search mode, always looking for a way to improve and grow, and I'm incredibly open-minded!! THAT BEING SAID.

 

I've seen & heard detailers say things like "Oh my gawd, this is the best thing ever." Or "Dude, there's no other option, you have to do this." Or "Man it's the wave of the future." And I get that progression is the name of the game, I TOTALLY understand that. I get it, I truly do.

 

But this is an UNNECESSARY evolution. And plain and simple, clay bar is still THE BEST way (after personally using a few of these towels) to remove contaminants, safely, effectively, and thoroughly. PERIOD. I'm not gonna repeat everything Dylan just said. But he's dead on. THE TIME YOU SAVE BY USING THE MORE AGGRESSIVE NANO-CLAY (or whatever the hell those stupid things are called) YOU SPEND THAT MUCH LONGER IN POLISHING, CORRECTING ALL THE CRAP YOU JUST SCREWED UP!!!! Makes no sense whatsoever. If you're looking to work against yourself, hell, go drive your clean car through the mud, pull back in the driveway and repeat the wash process!!! It's the same philosophy and that makes no sense at all to me.....?? I don't understand at all why you would intentionally harm the clearcoat?

 

I'm not saying anyone is WRONG here. If you wanna jack stuff up to fix it, BE MY GUEST. I ain't mad atcha playa, lol. But I won't do it. In my experience nothing touches the way a clay bar works, incredibly efficient and incredibly safe. The detailing profession, at times, brings about "new fads" or "bandwagon" products from time to time. And this is apparently one of those products (no different than the infomercials with "NuFinish - the once a year wax!"). Every once in awhile there's a product that's revolutionary.....but this ain't it people. Do as ya please.....

 

Just thought I'd highlight my original post, in case anyone else misinterpreted my intentions. It was written to get a giggle, with a very light heart. I didn't mean to offend anyone or bug anyone, I apologize if I did.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Chase@Adams

[Quiksilver5882]

Clay bar drama is the worst

[camaro2ssblack]

LOL. Dude ^^ I know that's aimed at me. I'm not an idiot.

 

I'm just giving my opinion. I'm so easy to get along with, please don't turn things upside down. Nothing was aimed at you, and I will absolutely NEVER claim to know everything. I really hope you don't misinterpret my reply, nor my intentions. Let's keep this easy and civil bro. Deal?

 

Just thought I'd highlight my original post, in case anyone else misinterpreted my intentions. It was written to get a giggle, with a very light heart. I didn't mean to offend anyone or bug anyone, I apologize if I did.

 

Chase you have nothing to apologize for. You simply stated your honest opinion on the subject and have every right to do so. I completely understand your passion and sense of humor and I typically really enjoy your posts and contributions to the forum. We have lots of common ground and style, heck we even share the same first name

I simply found this particular response to be somewhat condecending at some points suggesting those who used clay alternatives were effectively insane for lack of a better term. I personally do not detail professional and have only used one clay alternative to date. Chances are you have forgotten more about detailing that I will ever know. I do, however, really enjoy the work of others who are detailing professionally and just to name a few, Dave @ Innovative Detailing & Phil @ DD use a nano system to decontaminate vehicles on a daily basis. We both know they have probably clayed more cars traditionally that you and I combined and yet somehow they have determined a nano system to be at least on par (and more likely) a better solution for them when time is money and quality of work cannot be sacrified in order to preserve a hard earned outstanding reputation. That alone is good enough for me. I realize it may not be for the Adams philosophy and current product line. In my opinion, that does not mean those who use it are intentionallly "jacking" up their ride for the fun of it.

With all that being said, I should not have posted a response that had its own underlying intent and for that I do apologize. I should have handled that with a PM or just ignored it. Believe me bro, I dont carry any hard feelings and hopefully noone else does as well. I thought it was a good thread topic by the OP and I am sorry for the thread hi-jack.

 

Now what about that new wax???!!!!