waterspots after ceramic coating

[Slickit]

First off, Hello everybody!

 

History:

I have a 2019 F-150 that I took to a company to get ceramic coated.  Due to weather constraints it did take them about 4 days to ceramic coat my truck with Adams Ceramic Paint Coating Kit. I had a good feeling from the person that did actually do the coating that he knew what he was doing and seemed to care for doing a good an correct job.  Once I received my vehicle I will say it looked great but I would rate the job done as a 90% (I'm picky)  there were spots where it looked like the coating was not thoroughly worked in.  

 

Current issue:

Fast forward 3 weeks to my first wash.  Got all my stuff together and started to attempt a touchless car wash with the foam gun and drying mostly with air.  But before I could even get the drying towel out I noticed a absolute massive amount of water spots on my truck.  I even pigged my water hose to remove any contaminants in the hose.  Also I have a $7K water filtration system cause I hate hard/acidic water.  It was a cool day with no breeze to speak of and overcast, I decided to wash again using a pressure washer to rinse and better "scrub" to maybe help with the spots.  Alas pressure washer wont start.  I spend the night fixing that and in the morning I begin to wash again, no difference with the pressure washer so I setup and go for the two bucket method to get all the dirt off the truck and hope the water spots will go as well.  NOPE.  So then while the truck is wet I get the H20 G&G out and start wiping down panels, kinda buffing with the HGG to easily rub out as many spots as I can.  This helps with many of the spots that I can reach and did great taking the spots off the vinyl stickers on the truck but the spots are not completely gone.  Unfortunately I did not take any before pictures but below are some after pictures, there are more spots than in the pic but die to the lighting I couldn't get them all with my cell phone camera.  I really did expect more from the coating to stop these spots from forming, especially with it being so very very fresh.  Am I being ridiculous for expecting more or are my after pics what you would expect to get after lightly polishing with HGG?

 

Edit: meant to post this in general but I guess this section is ok as well.

Thanks for any help, advice or tips.

The windshield pic is the best depiction of what most of the truck looked like before the HGG hand "polish/buff"

 

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Slickit

[Hamilton Detail]

Usually after the coating cures, it needs to be topped with a sealant, like ceramic boost for example.  The ceramic boost would prevent these spots from happening.  I'm assuming maybe this wasn't done in this case? 

 

If these spots are etched into the coating you'll need to try a mineral deposit remover or worse case scenario, polish them out and re-apply coating in those areas.  

[shane@detailedreflections]

I’m going to go against the grain and say it’s not an installation issue. My thought process is that if it were an installation issue the glass wouldn’t have the same spots on it. Adams doesn’t coat glass (unless you use ceramic spray coating), but the glass exhibits the same type of deposit or etching on it. The same effect on different surfaces leads time to believe it’s some kind of deposit.

 

Is the filtration system in need of maintenance?  

 

Also a filtration system isn’t necessarily a deionizer. The deionizer is what leaves spot free finishes since spots are either deposits or ionic in nature typically. 

 

Your detailer might be willing to knock the spots down and reapply the coating, but I don’t believe this to be an installation issue. 

[Slickit]

Adams ceramic boost was applied twice the next day after the Ceramic paint coating was applied about 18 hours after the ceramic was done as i understand and the two boost coats done about 8 hours apart.  I was more recently able to get a lot of the water spots on the roof off by clay'ing them out (what i could reach anyway) but on the glass.... Back glass i got about 98% of the spots off.  Side windows id say average at about 75% spots removed but the darn windshield was just not giving up,  probably only got 10-15% of those spots off with the clay bar.  I tried low pressure wiping and that was basically useless so i tried firm hard pressure and wiping and circles.  That was able to get some progress but really really hope this isnt going to be needed for each of my washes cause i simply cannot afford that at this rate.(both $ wise and more so my darn shoulders are killing me)

Picture below is after i clayed the windshield

Edit:

Just went outside to check things and its super humid and in the dark pretty much the whole truck looks like crap, water spots everywhere, streaks from apparently not buffing enough even though it looked perfect in daylight.  This is just all very dissatisfying, i guess my expectations were simply too high.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Slickit

[Rich]

Wondering if the car was prepped correctly before the ceramic coating was done.  You can't just wash the car and apply the coating.  That paint has to be prepared properly before applying the coating.  If those spots were already there, and they didn't see them and just applied the coating, you may have to have it removed,  prepare the paint correctly, then reapply. 

[zw470]

On 2/4/2019 at 1:05 PM, Hamilton Detail said:

Usually after the coating cures, it needs to be topped with a sealant, like ceramic boost for example.  The ceramic boost would prevent these spots from happening.  I'm assuming maybe this wasn't done in this case? 

 

If these spots are etched into the coating you'll need to try a mineral deposit remover or worse case scenario, polish them out and re-apply coating in those areas.  

 

If the "topper" is what prevents the water spots, what's the point of the ceramic coating in the first place?

[camaro2ssblack]

2 hours ago, zw470 said:

 

If the "topper" is what prevents the water spots, what's the point of the ceramic coating in the first place?

 

Bingo.  

 

This thread is bringing to light an issue with coatings that keeps me from putting them on my personal cars.  They are more susceptible to water spots than the existing clear coat.  They constantly need to be "topped" and maintained, just about as much as your actual clear coat.  Other than the self cleaning abilities and initial gloss, I really don't see the benefits of a coating for people who are going to stay on top of their car's finish.  For the person who never properly takes care of their paint, I think a coating is a good choice cause at least those contaminants or water spots aren't damaging the actual clear coat.

 

I think just educating yourself on their real capabilities will limit the unrealistic expectations and help an individual make a decision that is best for their particular situation.

Edited February 6, 2019 by camaro2ssblack

[dirtymarcus]

Interesting, I had no idea ceramic coat needed to be topped.  Guess I know what I will buy on my next order since I already bought ceramic spray.

[Hamilton Detail]

4 hours ago, zw470 said:

 

If the "topper" is what prevents the water spots, what's the point of the ceramic coating in the first place?

Let's use Adam's ceramic paint coating for example.  When it says cure for 24 hours, that's just when it's safe to use the vehicle.  Depending on climate and many other variables, the coating is actually still curing up to a week later.  What allows it to be okay at this point is the silica sealant.   It is also what keeps the water spots from happening during this time.  

 

I personally don't care for Adam's ceramic boost, but I do use another brand's version about once a month on my personal vehicles and never have a water spot issue.  

[Hamilton Detail]

3 minutes ago, dirtymarcus said:

Interesting, I had no idea ceramic coat needed to be topped.  Guess I know what I will buy on my next order since I already bought ceramic spray.

The ceramic spray is somewhat of a different ball game.  The boost isn't 100% necessary for it, but you can definitely use it on the ceramic spray and get benefits from that.  

[Hamilton Detail]

4 hours ago, camaro2ssblack said:

 

Bingo.  

 

This thread is bringing to light an issue with coatings that keeps me from putting them on my personal cars.  They are more susceptible to water spots than the existing clear coat.  They constantly need to be "topped" and maintained, just about as much as your actual clear coat.  Other than the self cleaning abilities and initial gloss, I really don't see the benefits of a coating for people who are going to stay on top of their car's finish.  For the person who never properly takes care of their paint, I think a coating is a good choice cause at least those contaminants or water spots aren't damaging the actual clear coat.

 

I think just educating yourself on their real capabilities will limit the unrealistic expectations and help an individual make a decision that is best for their particular situation.

While I see your point, I would still prefer my personal vehicles ceramic coated.  If done correctly, water spots are never an issue.  

 

If you spray detail spray, spray wax, H2O G&G, a spray sealant, or whatever on your waxed/sealed vehicles, it's no different than topping your coating off every once in a while with a silica spray sealant.  

 

The hydrophobic properties of a ceramic are second to none and the self cleaning properties are amazing.  But of course, they are not for everyone.  

 

 

[camaro2ssblack]

3 minutes ago, Hamilton Detail said:

While I see your point, I would still prefer my personal vehicles ceramic coated.  If done correctly, water spots are never an issue.  

 

If you spray detail spray, spray wax, H2O G&G, a spray sealant, or whatever on your waxed/sealed vehicles, it's no different than topping your coating off every once in a while with a silica spray sealant.  

 

The hydrophobic properties of a ceramic are second to none and the self cleaning properties are amazing.  But of course, they are not for everyone.  

 

 

 

I can agree with that.

 

But in the case of the OP, what did he do incorrectly?  He had the coating professionally installed along with a topper afterwords.  He has taken great lengths to make sure his tap water is of the best quality.  Although we don't know the exact time that elapsed between foaming and drying his truck that day, what else could be done to eliminate those spots?  

[Rich]

1 minute ago, camaro2ssblack said:

 

I can agree with that.

 

But in the case of the OP, what did he do incorrectly?  He had the coating professionally installed along with a topper afterwords.  He has taken great lengths to make sure his tap water is of the best quality.  Although we don't know the exact time that elapsed between foaming and drying his truck that day, what else could be done to eliminate those spots?  

 

Exactly my point in saying that the problem could be that the car wasn't prepped correctly prior to the coating.  I'm still thinking that was his problem.

[camaro2ssblack]

Just now, Rich said:

 

Exactly my point in saying that the problem could be that the car wasn't prepped correctly prior to the coating.  I'm still thinking that was his problem.

 

Very possible indeed, I am just assuming a professional would prep the surface before applying a coating.  But the OP would have to verify that for us.

[Hamilton Detail]

11 minutes ago, camaro2ssblack said:

 

I can agree with that.

 

But in the case of the OP, what did he do incorrectly?  He had the coating professionally installed along with a topper afterwords.  He has taken great lengths to make sure his tap water is of the best quality.  Although we don't know the exact time that elapsed between foaming and drying his truck that day, what else could be done to eliminate those spots?  

There's many variables we don't know, but if I were the OP, I'd go back to the installer.  I'm guessing something wasn't done correctly, but that could be several different things.  

 

Adam's doesn't make a mineral deposit remover, but several other companies do.  I think that's going to be the OP's best bet for now.  

[TheWolf]

^Agreed.  The worst spots are on the glass, which shows that the Ceramic Coating was somewhat effective in preventing the water spots from being as severe on the paint.

 

I would guess that something is wrong with the water filtration system.  Assuming it is not deionized water, since this would not be used for a whole-house filtration system, then something else is getting past the filter system.  If the filter sustem is just a water softener, then the deposits would be sodium or potassium, but water spots from these minerals should be much easier to remove compared to the calcium and magnesium in hard water spots.

 

If the water filter is using another resin for treatment other than hard water, such as nitrites or arsenic, then that resin may be the issue.  Some resins have to be replaced, unlike the resins in water softeners that are recharge with salt.

 

The OP should have the water tested by the company that installed the system to see what is going on with the filter system.

[Slickit]

Sorry been afk from this for a while, real life issues. 

 

My filtration system is in good working order although there are certain things I don't have the stuff the test for very specifically.  My system does recharge with salt and it flushes/cleans its own filters every 4 days or so to extend life, but i can say there is one filter that i think is supposed to be replaced in the next 6 months so maybe there is some residue getting by.  The acid neutralizer is mostly charcoal but it gets filtered again after that and then salt after that. (maybe its the salt!?)  But i can say that there is no de ionizer in the system so i don't expect perfect rinses from just that and I also believe that after washing this truck and a few others I kinda have a better system/method sorted.  With H2OG&G being the final layer which seems to work ever so slightly better on the vinyl stickers on the truck over the boost.  But the boost seems to be a little more slick,  again but with using the H2OG&G doubling as my drying method with those fantastic edge-less grey towels that'll be my choice i think.  The water spots are still not completely off the glass and a few left in certain areas after lots of claying,  i think my clay bar is toast (it looks like i ground it into the dirt) so i ordered another one to finish just a little bit on the hood and roof. 

 

Confirm whole house system and water is supposed to be very nearly PH neutral last test was about 2 months ago.

 

I can confirm that the professionals did "polish and buff" the truck before they applied the coating because other small defects are now gone, ones that could only be polished out and i can see spots they missed and where their "auto polisher" was run against vinyl and valleys.

 

I would take it back to the installers but by now i have fixed so much of it on my own and I don't feel like dealing with anything they might come back with like "its my fault" cause i would probably loose it on them. 

 

Hopefully with a little more clay I will be able to get it all taken care of.  All the areas I have clayed so far and applied the G&G have been reacting as expected but I have also not driven much since then so when I have to take it on another trip then I will really know.  I will post an update after claying and cleaning in a few days and another one in a couple months to let yall know how it all comes out.  Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

 

To those still not sure about getting the coating I would say don't let this one situation and instance be your determining factor.  Look for more reviews and videos on youtube.  Maybe go to a car show and ask people if they have it and see what you think.

 

Edit:  P.S.

Thoughts on using 0000 steel wool to remove waterspots on glass?

Edited February 12, 2019 by Slickit

[shane@detailedreflections]

1 hour ago, Slickit said:

 

Edit:  P.S.

Thoughts on using 0000 steel wool to remove waterspots on glass?

 

Go for it. You won’t hurt anything at all. It leaves a great finish on the glass. 

 

And I agree with you that if you’ve already fixed it, it’s not worth going back. 

 

We would take care of it anyway, but I can see why some businesses wouldn’t. First, it’s not really an install issue. Second, you already fixed it “some how.” By that I mean they don’t know what you did/didn’t do to it. We strive for great customer satisfaction; sometimes too much so. But not all businesses work like that.

 

I still think it’s a water/product issue as opposed to an installation issue. 

[Slickit]

Well almost 2 months later and with only about 800 miles on the road and now the hood has zero hydrophobic properties, the doors and fenders seem to be mostly holding up, and there is suddenly some very "hard" stuff on my truck that I cant seem to get off with a regular wash pad and the ol 2 bucket method.   I uploaded a video clip (probably going to get flak for doing this) of me very lightly running my finger tips/nails across the surface of my trucks paint job/finish.  Not so hard that i would ever be able to scratch it or anything but enough to make a sound to assist in describing how much "debris" is on my finish.  This is after a wash and I am not sure what the best method would be to get this clean and smooth again.  Especially considering there is supposed to be a ceramic coat on this truck which should have  seriously impeded somethings ability to stick this well, or so I thought. Truck was left in a parking lot for 3 weeks while I was at work.  No trees at all and only dust in the air, one rain.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Slickit

[shane@detailedreflections]

It sounds like your truck needs a good clay bar decontamination. Anything sitting on a vehicle for a long time allows time for bonding. Coatings aren’t impossible to have things stick to them, they just make it harder. I’m guessing a little clay on it and it comes right back to life. 

 

Coatings aren’t maintenance free and this seems like a short time span for contamination, but sitting in an uncontrolled environment can certainly cause issues. 

 

Try clay and see what happens. Maybe I’ll write up a thing on reasonable expectations of last step products one of these days and how to best maintain them. 

[Slickit]

I ll have to wait for tonight since the full sun today makes the truck so hot i literally cannot keep water or any other liquid on it for more than 30sec at best.   I really wish i had a garage this truck could fit into. 

[DasShuk]

Hey All,

Newb here. Interestingly enough, I have encountered some trouble with my coating similar to the OP. I did all the prep work myself including paint correction, and coated the car about 7 months ago. To be transparent, the car is my 20 year old beater that sits outside 24/7. Everything was great until about a month ago when I noticed what appeared to be etching from water spots. I’ve been maintaining the coating as directed, and nothing will get the spots off other than polishing. I’ve decided to polish the spots out and go back to trusty old carnauba. To be fair to Adams, I didn’t use their ceramic coating product. 
 

[Sam Y]

Same situation as you DasShuk. I live in a complex where sprinklers turn on at 2AM and blast every car with mineral water. Even with a professional Ceramic CQuartz done and diligently washing the car when I see water- there is no way to get it out except polishing (I assume).

 

I will still stick to the ceramic coating due to the fact that it makes the rest of the car easier to clean especially in this massive pollen hurricane season, but I do recognize and see through a lot of the 'fluff' ceramic coating marketers throw at you.

 

Once I get a garage a lot of these issues will be solved. Until then, it's just damage control!

[Rich]

5 hours ago, All American Detail Servic said:

Try a different brand. Adam's is too new of a company to rely on perfection.  Try ****** next time.

Been in business 20 years!  Where you been? 

[markmil]

Dated post but ran across it because i have a similar issue.  my new titan black truck i had ceramic pro applied.  After a few months i noticed after rains, the hood, roof had a bunch of nasty looking water spots.  I've had a bunch of black, outside parked cars w/o coating and never this bad.  so, i did a test..washed both my truck and my jeep (waxed, black also), waited for the next rain..cherokee looked fine..my truck looks like crap.  Now, it cleans off easily, so appears at the end of the day, the tradeoff maybe 'more washes' but no waxes....at least for a black painted vehicle in the outside heat of the south east.  interested in others comments/similar situations.

[rrmccabe]

It must be a characteristic of ceramic because now that Graphene is out they are using the better water spotting abilities of Graphene against ceramic.