How long will kits last and what do I really need?

[Pyrophor2011]

I am thinking about buying one of the kits but interested in knowing how long the products, including non chemical products, last.

 

My car is a 2011 Genesis Coupe with Bathurst Black paint and I just purchased it about two weeks ago. I am interested in the Junkman kit or any other similar kit because I have swirls that need to be removed.

 

Since purchasing the car, the Hyundai dealership has been washing it for me because of some hard water spots that were there before purchase. Turns out, they were making swirls on the car so I have since stopped letting them wash it. However, even when they would wash the car it would be dirty again literally 1-2days later even though I park it in a garage, don't drive it often and when at work I park it in the open, not under a tree or anything. It's like the products they use are attracting pollen and dirt like a magnet.

 

So really, I am wondering if Adams will help with the frequency which I need to wash my car and how long their polish and wax last. I have read about antistatic products and didn't know if they were a gimmick or if Adams has similar features.

 

Honestly, I am trying to figure out how long all this stuff will last because of the initial sticker shock of the kits. Even refills are kind of expensive and I was considering products from the Meguiars Pro or Zaino lines because of that.

 

As far as what I need, I was thinking of just going with the Junkman kit as said above. The seating is leather in my car though and it would probably be a good idea to also get leather cleaner. I am just trying to be conservative here because money is tight right now but I dont want to sacrifice the beauty of my new car for a few dollars.

 

Any help that can be provided would be appreciated, thanks!

[Team Adam's]

First, I have contacted customer support but have not even mentioned returning the merchandise. If a refund were my goal, I wouldn't have to come here first to obtain it. The only reason I have contacted support so far is to get support. Even if I wanted a refund, how would I exploit the 110% guarantee anyways? It's my understanding that if I felt the products didn't meet my expectations I could just get a refund. So what is there to exploit?

 

Second, I spent 30+ hours working on my car. If you call that impatient that I would like to know your definition of patience. I spent 30 minutes in just one spot alone going through the various polishes. I also spent weeks leading up to the work just watching the videos to make sure I didn't mess anything up.

 

From my end, I think the difference between you and I are the level of quality we expect. I would offer a guess that our results probably look similar but you aren't picky. On my end, I expect a flawless or near flawless look for the money spent and time invested. The results I got were one notch below near flawless, nothing to scoff at but nothing to rave about. Besides, I am sure the difference is much more noticeable on a damaged car versus a new/undamaged car.

 

As far as hard scratches, there are none. My damage is similar to almost everything I have found in this forum, it just isn't being removed by the PC.

 

When I get the time, I will upload a video of my work/technique for all to see. Other than that, you can keep what I consider to be your rude insinuations and the "loser" animated emoticon.

 

Thanks

 

I think this thread has run its course, and the chippy attitudes aren't helping. Jason, you have some excellent suggestions on how to proceed from here, plus numerous offers to help so the balls in your court at this point.

 

I don't think anyone questioned the AMOUNT of time you put in, the implied 'patience' that people are referring to is the learning aspect of machine polishing. Afterall you can spend 5,000 hours polishing with incorrect technique as part of the process and get the same bad results... its how you adapt, learn, and adjust your technique that will yield the biggest change in the shortest time.

 

As much as you would like to think you are, you are not a unique or special snowflake! Paint is paint, polishes are polishes, and aside from variations in condition and surroundings your not attempting anything one of our thousands and thousands of satisfied customers haven't already. If they can get the desired results so can you, its just going to come down to technique.

[Pyrophor2011]

I have patience. I spent 5 hours last night getting just the trunk and tail lights 95% perfect. What I also have is a good job that I'm fortunate enough to get a lot of overtime pay, a yard that I like to keep looking nice, and a beautiful wife that doesn't appreciate me spending 5 hours per night out in the garage. Just like at my job, I am after results. I don't toil hour after hour out in the 95 degree heat because I find it therapeutic.

 

Having said that, I will likely sell my PC and pads privately and buy the Flex kit from Adam's. My focus pads are falling apart and I may send those back under the guarantee. The Velcro portion of the green pad is already starting to fall off and I can see the green portion punching through it. I will snap a picture when I get home from work. These things have maybe 3 hours of off and on work.

 

Does the damage to the pads look similar to what I posted? I am not sure if I feel comfortable going with the flex kit but know the PC hasn't given me the results I am after. I will try again on the hood this weekend if I have time but am in the exact same situation.

 

Were you using a setting of 6 on the PC and having pad problems?

[Pyrophor2011]

I recently purchased adam's stuff and had a pretty damaged vehicle. I usually a slow learner but the process was pretty seamless... It didnt take long to see the results I wanted, surely it wasnt the first day or week but anyway...I sense one of two things here. 1. some serious impatience and something being obviously neglected./a serious scratch that goes beyond the clear or 2. there is some trolling involved, possibly to exploit the 110% guarantee on the large purchase. No offense.

 

my 2cents.

 

First, I have contacted customer support but have not even mentioned returning the merchandise. If a refund were my goal, I wouldn't have to come here first to obtain it. The only reason I have contacted support so far is to get support. Even if I wanted a refund, how would I exploit the 110% guarantee anyways? It's my understanding that if I felt the products didn't meet my expectations I could just get a refund. So what is there to exploit?

 

Second, I spent 30+ hours working on my car. If you call that impatient that I would like to know your definition of patience. I spent 30 minutes in just one spot alone going through the various polishes. I also spent weeks leading up to the work just watching the videos to make sure I didn't mess anything up.

 

From my end, I think the difference between you and I are the level of quality we expect. I would offer a guess that our results probably look similar but you aren't picky. On my end, I expect a flawless or near flawless look for the money spent and time invested. The results I got were one notch below near flawless, nothing to scoff at but nothing to rave about. Besides, I am sure the difference is much more noticeable on a damaged car versus a new/undamaged car.

 

As far as hard scratches, there are none. My damage is similar to almost everything I have found in this forum, it just isn't being removed by the PC.

 

When I get the time, I will upload a video of my work/technique for all to see. Other than that, you can keep what I consider to be your rude insinuations and the "loser" animated emoticon.

 

Thanks

[mike690001]

Now there's no way you're going to make any complaints on the Flex. It's a powerhouse machine that makes quick work out of swirls. If the Flex doesn't remove your swirls,then your cars came with space age NASA grade clear coat!

 

**Focus pads are easy to destroy if you use them near edges, but on a flat surface, it's not going to happen. I destroyed a set polishing my SRT8 wheels, but there's no way I want Adam to send me a new set because they are now rendered useless. I bought a new set, no worries! Now if you took it out the box and if crumbled in your hands, then definitely there's a problem.

 

Most of the time it's poor technique that destroys the product and equipment. The 110% guarantee is a great plus, but I'd hate to see Adam lose money from too many noob mistakes.

[chrisguga]

I recently purchased adam's stuff and had a pretty damaged vehicle. I usually a slow learner but the process was pretty seamless... It didnt take long to see the results I wanted, surely it wasnt the first day or week but anyway...I sense one of two things here. 1. some serious impatience and something being obviously neglected./a serious scratch that goes beyond the clear or 2. there is some trolling involved, possibly to exploit the 110% guarantee on the large purchase. No offense.

 

my 2cents.

 

Strong first post.

[chrisguga]

I have patience. I spent 5 hours last night getting just the trunk and tail lights 95% perfect. What I also have is a good job that I'm fortunate enough to get a lot of overtime pay, a yard that I like to keep looking nice, and a beautiful wife that doesn't appreciate me spending 5 hours per night out in the garage. Just like at my job, I am after results. I don't toil hour after hour out in the 95 degree heat because I find it therapeutic.

 

Having said that, I will likely sell my PC and pads privately and buy the Flex kit from Adam's. My focus pads are falling apart and I may send those back under the guarantee. The Velcro portion of the green pad is already starting to fall off and I can see the green portion punching through it. I will snap a picture when I get home from work. These things have maybe 3 hours of off and on work.

[adamstothemax]

I recently purchased adam's stuff and had a pretty damaged vehicle. I usually a slow learner but the process was pretty seamless... It didnt take long to see the results I wanted, surely it wasnt the first day or week but anyway...I sense one of two things here. 1. some serious impatience and something being obviously neglected./a serious scratch that goes beyond the clear or 2. there is some trolling involved, possibly to exploit the 110% guarantee on the large purchase. No offense.

 

my 2cents.

[XQIZT]

I'm going to jump back in here and re-introduce myself. Hi there, Jason. I'm sorry that you're not getting quite the results you were hoping for, but I KNOW that myself and the other experts here will get you there.

 

Here are a few things that I feel must be done.

 

#1: Even if there are no videos, please post some pictures of your paint using a camera with a flash. That will enable us to see the extent of the swirls/issues.

 

#2: A 15 second video from your iPhone of you using your PC will help us confirm the good, the bad and the ugly.

 

#3: As far as your PC rotation, please PLEASE check to make sure that there is a washer between the backing plate and the female threaded hole on the PC. That TINY bit of hardware is ESSENTIAL. Forgive me if that's already been addressed here, but I want to make double sure, as it is easy to over-look. You had mentioned some "grinding" noise previously and I feel that needs to be looked into if it hasn't already.

 

#4: I see you say you have a couple of months before you're going to dive into this again. I suggest that you take a day trip to one of the shows/clinics that I will be conducting throughout Florida. We SHOULD be in Ocala on the weekend before Halloween (check out "Ocala Pumpkin Run" online). Tallahassee is quite a distance, but If I am ever over there, I will let you know and visit you, if that's something you'd be interested in. And if you are ever in the Orlando/Central Florida area, PLEASE contact me and I will be happy to help. I've opened my home and garage to other customers and I'm happy to do the same for you.

[Junkman2008]

Then, I purchased the green pad and Severe Swirl Remover and spent 5 hours the other night working on two doors and one quarter panel of my car with only average results. I'm talking 5-6 hits per section with the heavy duty stuff and I could still see tons of small scratches using my new halogen lights.

 

In all honesty, 5-6 passes is not a lot of passes. 15-20? Now you're getting up there but I have had to do the same. Again, we have not seen you actually working on your car so there's no telling what the issue may be. If you posted a video if you actually working on the paint while explaining everything that you are doing and using as if the viewers were completely blind, we may be able to offer some better advice as to what the problem may be.

 

In my years of doing this, a video has shown me volumes about a person's technique and I have been able to correct a lot of common mistakes.

 

I had to resort to the green 4" focus pads on a drill in order to get a few of those scratches out. I then used the 4" pads on the Porter Cable with some success, but I just never figured the machine would be *this* weak. I'm wondering if I can use the Severe Swirl Remover with the orange pad as it seems more firm and may cut through the clear a little faster?

 

This is a common misconception about the pads. The way the pad "feels" has absolutely nothing to do with how the pads cuts. What determines the cut of the pad is the amount of "pores per inch" and the size of pores in the foam. The more pores, the more cut. Have you noticed how long the white pad takes to dry? It's more foam than pores. Thus, the way that you are thinking is flawed. Technique is the key my friend.

 

I'll probably end up selling the PC and buying a flex before too long. I've spent 4-5 nights out in the garage working on my car and so far I've only finished the hood, trunk, and most of the left side of the car. Even those areas aren't perfect, but I gave up on perfection for now after everyone here scared me away from wet sanding. Sadly, wet sanding gave by far the best results.

 

Now for someone who is very experienced in wet sanding, that statement totally baffles me.

 

Removing wet sanding damage using a PC as the polisher leaves you with a very limited range of sandpaper to use. There's work involved when you use 2500 grit and a PC. If you go to 2000, you're going to need a different polisher. If you can remove wet sanding damage with a PC but are having trouble removing swirls, I would venture to say that you have definitely not removed all the wet sanding damage. Wet sanding leaves way more damage than washing and wiping on the car incorrectly. Thus, logic will show that removing regular swirls is a lot easier. The only thing that I can think of is the damage that you are having trouble removing is actually deep scratches that are through the clear coat. That is the only way that what you've said can make sense to me. That also explains why that damage is not coming out with the PC.

 

Oh, and my white pad is also falling apart around the edges. All the other pads look great, but that one looks rough.

 

Adam's 110% money back guarantee. All you have to do is call the warehouse. That my friend is posted on every wall of the forum. It's just sitting there waiting for you to use it.

[chrisguga]

Jason, I'm up here in Thomasville, GA and I have had a somewhat similar experience with my new Porter Cable. I absolutely love Adam's products and also find the Super VRT and the Interior Conditioner to be the two best products, but have been underwhelmed with the PC.

 

I originally bought the PC kit with the various polishes and pads, but after hitting one spot 5-6 times with the swirl and haze remover and orange pad and still having scratches I ended up wet sanding with great results as shown here:

 

http://www.adamsforums.com/forums/machine-polishing/12915.htm

 

Then, I purchased the green pad and Severe Swirl Remover and spent 5 hours the other night working on two doors and one quarter panel of my car with only average results. I'm talking 5-6 hits per section with the heavy duty stuff and I could still see tons of small scratches using my new halogen lights.

 

I had to resort to the green 4" focus pads on a drill in order to get a few of those scratches out. I then used the 4" pads on the Porter Cable with some success, but I just never figured the machine would be *this* weak. I'm wondering if I can use the Severe Swirl Remover with the orange pad as it seems more firm and may cut through the clear a little faster? My mother and sister both want to pay me to machine polish their cars, but I can't agree to it if it's going to to take a ridiculous amount of time. My sister has a nice new Lexus that would make a great demo car for before and after pictures, but I just don't know if it's worth my time unless she's willing to shell out $1k or so for the week of evenings and all day Saturday and Sunday it would take to get it looking right.

 

I'll probably end up selling the PC and buying a flex before too long. I've spent 4-5 nights out in the garage working on my car and so far I've only finished the hood, trunk, and most of the left side of the car. Even those areas aren't perfect, but I gave up on perfection for now after everyone here scared me away from wet sanding. Sadly, wet sanding gave by far the best results.

 

Oh, and my white pad is also falling apart around the edges. All the other pads look great, but that one looks rough.

[Junkman2008]

To be fair, regardless of technique, one spot shouldn't take 30 minutes. That is the approximate amount of time I spent between SSR, SHR and FMP. Even with the worst technique, aside from applying no pressure at all, I would have expected much more from that amount of time. To be completely honest, I don't have that kind of time or patience. What I expected was to spend 4-5 days working on my car to get it pristine and keep it there. No amount of time or effort, trial or error, got me there.

 

If you don't have the kind of time needed to actually learn how to do this, then you're stuck dealing with the kind of people who damaged your paint in the first place. Remember those guys? That's what got you motivated to do this yourself in the first place.

 

I will say this. A professional can pick up a rotary polisher and be done with your car in 4-5 hours, not days. Of course, that buffer in your hands would be a disaster to your paint. What you must realize is that you are using the safest polisher on the market that will actually fix paint. By NO means is it powerful, but with the correct technique it is very effective. Powerful is in a totally different league and will make child's play of your paint damage. In the wrong hands, however, it will make pennies out of you bank account after you pay to have the car repainted.

 

Also, in your videos you go on about how simple the process is. You can't compare to Tiger Woods and refer to this as a simple process. I followed everything in the videos to the letter, I am not sure what else there is to the technique.

 

One word:

 

Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice. Practice.

 

Get my drift?

 

What is beyond me and something I should have realized from the get go, is the idea that you remove swirls and keep them off is impossible. Even with these high quality products, towels and pads dust is still everywhere and you will damage the vehicle. I started with brand new towels, washed them once and still had swirls after, even with a closed garage.

 

It's not the products that keep the swirls at bay, it's how you touch the paint! Only when the paint is touched can a scratch appear. If you incorrectly remove the dust, I don't care if the towel you used was blessed by the Pope himself, you will create paint damage. You have a misunderstanding of what actually creates damage if this doesn't make sense to you. You fix the damage that is in your paint presently and then you avoid doing the things that created that damage from that point forward. What you are saying is similar to saying that it makes no sense to loose weight and eat correctly because you live next door to McDonald's. You don't have to eat there because you can choose to eat something healthier. The same goes for your paint. If you choose to address it in a manner that has been proven to reduce the creation of swirls, then the amount of swirls that you will have to address will be reduced to a minimum amount of work.

 

I look at my paint and see this everyday. Swirls and scratches are darn near extinct in my paint. The same can happen with your paint to but it requires a commitment on your behalf.

[THE Mook]

You got the Ultimate Kit!!!! Nice choice man! Junkman, way to help get someone off on the right foot!

 

Mook

[Bill-V8V]

Try contacting Steve too, he travels for a lot of clinics.

[Pyrophor2011]

Welcome to AF Jason,

 

 

 

Mike in Orlando or Steve in Atlanta are probably the closest dealers to you. Not that they are actually close.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike was the one I had been talking to but I agree, neither are "close." Due to work and other circumstances, I wont have time to work on the car for a couple months. To stretch things out, I will probably wait at least 6 months before giving it another full shot.

 

I would still like to take that time between now and then to figure out what might be going on and be ready for next time. I will try a second shot on a small section of the hood next weekend if I can get a hold of a camera.

[Bill-V8V]

Welcome to AF Jason,

 

 

 

Mike in Orlando or Steve in Atlanta are probably the closest dealers to you. Not that they are actually close.

[Pyrophor2011]

So where are you ?

 

And your name would be ???

 

Tallahassee, FL

Jason

[Bill-V8V]

So where are you ?

 

And your name would be ???

[Pyrophor2011]

Did you put a white line on the Adams backing plate to make sure it is spinning at the right speed?

 

It works amazing!

 

Not at first. I was able to watch the vent holes on the back of the pad to keep track. After having problems though I talked to Junkman and he suggested that so I went ahead and marked it. The mark was easier to keep track of than the holes but it will still spinning just the same.

[Pyrophor2011]

A brand new 2011 Genesis Coupe GT. The car was at another dealership but had only been driven so only had 5 miles on it. It had to be driven 200 miles to the dealership here. The problems started because the dealerships tried to clean the car in bad conditions with bad techniques and bad equipment. They put swirls and scratches all over the car. I attempted to correct that damage with Adams products. There was no "major damage" to the car.

 

There is someone I had been talking to on the forums, not sure how far away they are.

 

No, neither friend has used a polisher. They did watch the polish videos with me though, at least part of them, and said it looked exactly the same.

[mike690001]

Did you put a white line on the Adams backing plate to make sure it is spinning at the right speed?

 

It works amazing!

[Bill-V8V]

You should really get to a clinic or maybe there is a member in your area ? Or is there a Adam's dealer in your area?

 

Having two people watch you is great, but do they know how to use a PC ?

 

 

What kind of vehicle are you trying to correct ?

[Pyrophor2011]

So you really think that no matter how poorly you do something that if you spend 30 minutes doing it, it should be perfect anyways ???

 

 

This isn't rocket science and it isn't magic either. It is not extremely difficult but just touching the products to your paint will not magically transform it to perfection.

 

 

If you want help we are here to help.

 

Put stuff on the pad, apply pressure (9-14lbs), pick a small spot, make sure it's clean and weave in a slow motion allowing the pad, polish and PC to do the work. The PC should be on a setting of 5 and the pad should be slowly rotating. What else is there? This did not work after 30 minutes.

 

The only problem I had was with the PC and pressure. If I apply 14lbs of pressure the pad stops spinning, period. I used a scale to gauge the pressure so I had to stick around 11-12 lbs which was a little difficult because the weight of PC is almost that by itself. I still wonder if the PC is off, as said in another thread.

 

As far as doing something poorly, I detailed my steps above. So yes, if I did all that but my "technique" is still poor I still expected better results after 30 minutes in one spot. Its like driving from point A to point B but taking a wrong turn. I will still find my way there but it will take longer. It took way too long working on one single spot and never seemed to show any progress further than the first few minutes.

 

Personally, I would rather blame it on myself. If I could do that then it would mean there is still a chance to make things look perfect. However, unless there is some magical technique I am missing, something else is wrong or there is a combination of problems.

 

You're right, it isn't rocket science. I figure with the amount of time I have spent watching videos over and over and then having two people watch, I was doing things right.

 

Btw, I didn't send you a video Junkman because I don't have a camcorder, never needed one. I can take something with my iPhone but that wouldn't come through well and would be a pain. Maybe this coming weekend I will see if I can borrow a camera and work again on the hood.

[BrianT]

I agree with all of the above. You had said after washing the car again after it rain you had swirls all over. If you are not washing the car correctly, you are making new swirls in your paint that were not there before. Please, don't gi ve up, it does get easier!! My Firebird before it was mine was dried every time with a bath towel!!!! I had a lot of time with that car!!

[THE Mook]

Yeah, I am just worried about rain water that has dried on the paint and the dirt that is along with it. I didn't know if waiting was going to cause more harm than good.

 

Would it be a good idea to at least lightly rinse the car to get some of the dirt off?

 

Just let the touchless car wash be your friend until it shows up!

[Pyrophor2011]

the americana depending on conditions will last a couple of months but the tub itself will last you a long time if you take care of it. I think I figured it out to about a dollar a wax out of the tub and with the sale right now its even less then that comes out to like 70 or 75 cents a wax. Its easy on and easy off I love the stuff I have had mine for a while now and i still have at least 2/3rds of a container if not more.

 

That doesn't seem bad.

 

Yeah, my main concern right now is getting out these swirls. After that, I still left wondering whether I should go with Adams or something cheaper. As long as it keeps the car clean and protected without adding swirls, I don't see why stick with one brand over any other. It might be something I am going to have to figure out the hard way.

 

I was trying to breakdown how often I would need to rebuy the Adams stuff. With a 16 oz bottle of wash being about $25 and using it once a week it seems like a considerable amount to spend ever 3 months just for wash. Then the detailer and everything else except the polish and wax.