Quick question on swirl removal longevity on black cars..

[CKYnick]

Hey everyone,

 

Just had a quick question, A little bit of backround first....

 

I got caught up in the whole detailing thing pretty quickly so I purchased almost every Adam's product available. The first car I did, with the Adams and the PC was a black Pontiac G6. I worked from early morning till night getting the swirls out, polishing, glazing, waxing, the whole nine yards. It came out great, it was smooth as glass and reflected like a mirror, I was happy and impressed with the product.

 

However, the only step I didnt do, because it was the only thing I didnt have on hand at the time was the MSS. Long story short, I never touched the car with any types of cleaners towels exc for approx two weeks. I did the two bucket wash this weekend basically to remove the pollen and road dust from the car, all to reveal there are fine swirls everywhere on the car. It was like a shot too the gut seeing that to be honest, I felt like I had spent hundreds of dollars and hours of my time fine tunning the paint and for what? Heres the exact process I used in both cases:

 

Rinsed Wheels

Green wheel cleaner(rims), All purpose Cleaner(tires, wheel well)

Rinsed Wheels

Rinsed Car

Two bucket wash, Adams wash pads (2) Top and bottom seperate

Clayed

Two bucket wash

Dry

SSR (removed all steps with Adams microfibers)

SHR

FMP

Glaze

Americana (2) coats

 

When I washed the car this weekend I repeated the first 5 steps.

 

Was it just the fact I didnt use the MSS that im seeing swirls already? Im not trying to down the product, im just trying to understand if I did something wrong here.

 

Id appreciate any and all input, again, please dont take this as a bashing of Adams, by no means do I mean it that way.

 

Thanks ALL!

 

Nick

[THE Mook]

We are trying to help you also...nothing is being taken the wrong way, but you have an issue that needs solving...

[Luken10]

Hey Nick, this exact same thing happened to me about 6 months ago. Took my time and polished the car for 3 days, and my car (also black) was immaculate. All 3 polishes, MSS, Brilliant Glaze and Americana. About a week and a half later I decided to give it a wash. Knowing that just about everything can cause swirls I took every precaution in the book. I used extra shampoo, new wash mits, even bought a foam gun too. As I am washing the car I began to notice extremely fine markings from the right angles in the sun. Needless to say I was becoming irate very quickly! I had noticed the same thing while washing my car after a much quicker and less thorough detail a few months before that. Back then I figured I just hadn't gotten everything out, or it could of possibly been the way I was drying.

 

One thing that I wonder about is if the wax can be a contributing factor to swirls. Is it possible that wax put on too thick is more susceptible to minor swirls? I say this because even after drying the car, and going around it with a double soft I found that even touching the car with the towel caused minor swirls in the direction I would wipe the towel. Brand new towel at the time, with a perfectly clean car. So I decide to throw another layer of Brilliant Glaze and Americana on. After wiping everything down all of the swirls were gone and the car looked perfect again. Well, until the next wash at least, which brought back the same exact thing.

 

Honestly I am still not sure exactly how much wax to use. My theory is that the layer of wax is much softer than the clear coat and could possibly leave these extremely minute swirls on the car, but are only present in the layer of wax?

 

According to the way Nick was describing his problem, I am fairly certain we have the same type of thing going on. For me it is only at certain angles with the sun shining on it. Honestly they are hardly noticeable, but I think all of us here want to have that absolute perfect shine!

[Chewy]

Americana should only be applied to two or three panels and then remove starting with the first panel you applied it to.

 

Dust, and other contaminates will cause scratches, but not actual "swirls" like your making them out to be. Swirls come from improper washing, drying, polishing, waxing.

 

Chris

[CKYnick]

Nah no car cover, it makes me wonder if just from being a DD that if road dust, pollen, uv rays, could have cause these types of swirls. I dont know, I even question myself on the americana application, if I let it set up as long as I should have.

[diver88]

I am no expert and still learning so,

 

if you saw the damage before you dried it it had to either be there before the wash or it happened during the wash process. after spending three days trying to correct my new car the first time I'm really OCD about everything I do related to washing and drying.

 

to start with I don't wash the car until I've thoroughly swept and blown the driveway spotless. I don't wash my car on a windy day, and I pull it under cover to wash and dry it.

 

I rinse all the big stuff off as much as possible, then I use a foam gun and foam the car heavily. while the foam is sitting I rig up my two bucket wash with water and soap, then I use a little pressure to rinse the first foam off.

then I heavily foam the car again and not remove it before I start with a regular two bucket wash. I somehow feel like this layer of foam helps lubricate the wash pads even more.

 

I sheet rinse then use the detail spray to dry, I really like the results after.

 

once when I first started this path of Adams Enlightenment I used a leaf blower to eliminate drips from mirrors and side glass where that occurs but no matter how careful I was I felt I might introduce grit off the driveway onto the car.. so I don't use the leaf blower any longer.

 

also, as closely as I inspected the finish as I corrected I could always go back the next day and find stuff I missed, and yes overworking can add a type of damage on it's own.. I did that too.

 

it's a learning process and for a DD almost impossible to keep it the way you'd like it, I've seen damage and have no idea how it happened.

 

one question I had, you never mentioned it but you haven't used a car cover I assume? I can't see how a car cover can be used on a DD without introducing some sort of damage no matter how careful or how proficient with correction and aftercare a person is.

 

you'll find the problem and modify the process and probably accept that it won't be perfect, but nicer than doing nothing to care for the finish on your DD.

 

good luck,

[Team Adam's]

If you over work a product, yes... its entirely possible you put some minor imperfections back into the finish. Typically they'll be very uniform 'chop' marks, but something as simple as another pass and slightly shorter work time will correct it.

 

This is why its so key to get your test area and process dialed in first before hitting the whole car.

[CKYnick]

If I did at somepoint polish after the product broke down, does that mean i was just wasting time, or did it mean I could possibly do some slight damage to the spots I have corrected?

 

Thanks!

[chrys7]

I think you should post pics as soon as you are able so we can see what your seeing. My car is a DD and is swirl free, only thing I think I do different than you is when drying i never let the black thread on the drying towel touch my paint. Its always folded up, when it gets soaked I unfold and refold to a dry part. But the guys are right touching your car, your going to at some point swirl it up. I have reached a point where I am seriously considering the Master blaster to eliminate me having to touch the car less after a wash. To test your method do as the guys said, do and IPA wipe of a 2x2 section of the hood and start with the orange polish and make sure you see the polish flash (turns clear) once you see that stop. Possible your still polishing after the polish has already been broken down.

[CKYnick]

I had it completly spread out, but what got me was I didnt touch the car with anything after I did the paint correction. Before I even dried it when I did the initial rinse to wash the car I noticed the marks. I will try and post up some before, after, and after pics today I hope.

 

Also, yes they are light hairline scratches that are pretty noticible now, on the hood and trunk.

 

Thanks gang!

[Team Adam's]

Do you leave the GWDT folded when you use it, or is it completely spread out?

 

Perhaps the edging of the towel picked up some contamination and it's being drug across your panels?

 

Are they all over the car, or just on the horizontal panels, i.e. hood, roof, deck lid?

 

Are they straight line scratches, or are they circular/fish eye swirls? A picture would really help everyone out here.

[Tim]

I feel your pain. My SDD (summer daily driver) is black. I swear I get rid of all the swirls only to see some later. bg is wonderful for this!

[Chewy]

It'll be a fight forever. This is why a lot of people don't correct their DD's. Especially the dark colored ones. lol

 

Chris

[CKYnick]

We are trying to help you also...nothing is being taken the wrong way, but you have an issue that needs solving...

 

I know, and thats why when it seems like I come off with an attitude I wanna make sure everyone knows its without ill intentions, I really just wanna make sure I do things right. I truly do appreciate the help!

 

I guess it just bugged me when I worked so hard to remove most of the paint defects, all to see them again a couple weeks later. Im not trying to vent on anything, or even the product itself. Its obviously me, or the car

 

Chewy, yes they are adams wash pads, I used a lot of soap on each pad. I should get a foaming gun you are right there, I appreciate the suggestion!

 

Thanks!

[Chewy]

There's NOTHING better at showing you swirls and scratches than setting your camera to macro and shooting a flash into it. Do it in multiple areas of the car.

 

I have a black G8 as my DD. It's a royal PITB and pretty much impossible to keep it scratch free. That being said, you shouldn't have the issues you're having.

 

Are you using Adams wash pads?

 

Are you using a TON of Adams Shampoo so they lather is thick and insulating to the finish?

 

It wouldn't hurt to purchase a foaming gun. I use one religiously on mine.

 

Remember that most people here that correct their cars and post pictures, are correcting their garage queens/not DD's.

 

Black IS the devil. This will be my last black DD for sure... White or silver for me.

 

Chris

[CKYnick]

Anther thing too, daily drivers are nearly impossible to keep 100% especially black. If you can keep them at 95% you're doing everything right IMO. The nice thing is accepting that 95 is as good as your going to get on a dd but always having the option to make it 100% any time you feel like. That's what I've come to grips with and it's ok. They still look incredible you will drive yourself insane otherwise

 

That is what I have to keep in mind, as it is a DD, but I feel like I did everything right. Thats what bugs me

[CKYnick]

I finished the original paint correction process and was more then happy with the results, washing, drying, polishing, waxing, etc. It was only when I rinsed (not touching the car with anything) the car for the first wash after the paint correction did I notice the swirls that were not there previously.

 

As far as my drying technique, im not trying to be smart in anyway but why, if im not supposed to touch my car, did I buy two great white drying towels? I didnt scrub the surface to dry it, if there was any remaining water, after I used the leaf blower, I draped the towel over the car and lightly dragged down the surface.

 

Everything I used the first time around was brand new out of the package from Adam's. After that I washed the washed pads on the grit gaurds with APC, from in the middle to the outer edge, front and back. Cleaned all microfibers, in the washing machine, in warm water, with a dye free/scent free detergent.

 

I did a test spot on the hood, was happy with the results. Went on to finish the hood the same way and recieved the same results.

 

I worked with Halogen lights the entire time, taking them with me for every panel of the car.

 

I'm sorry I didnt include pictures but im limited to the internet @ work currently and didnt think to bring my camera today.

 

Like I said, please take none of this the wrong way, im just trying to figure out what could have gone wrong.

 

Thanks everyone!

[3PedalMINI]

I had a perfect finish on the mini, then dried it and before I realized their was very minor contamination in the towel, needless to say that's why my gwdt are in the **** bin and the only thing that touches my paint is the wash MIT because I have the master blaster. I had very fine scratches too, just like you are saying.

 

Also you need to get a foam gun, and a pressure washer version. This is an option on every other color but black. It's an absolute necessity when trying to keep a black car perfect, and a master blaster.

 

I'm not convinced that towel drying with a drying agent is safe, one tiny area that you missed while washing or something that is still lodged deep In the mf towel after washing and your done with perfect paint.

 

Anther thing too, daily drivers are nearly impossible to keep 100% especially black. If you can keep them at 95% you're doing everything right IMO. The nice thing is accepting that 95 is as good as your going to get on a dd but always having the option to make it 100% any time you feel like. That's what I've come to grips with and it's ok. They still look incredible you will drive yourself insane otherwise

[Chase@InsanePaint]

All the big dogs chimed in on this one already......Chase not needed.......wah, waah, waaaaaaah.

[Chris@Adams]

Review your 2 bucket wash technique and see if you might be doing something wrong.Remember every time that you touch your paint you have the potential of scratching no matter what color. Detailing Videos

[THE Mook]

1. Please post pictures of what you are talking about.

 

2. Did you mark of a 2'x2' area of the car, figure out your process and use that formula on the rest of the car?

 

3. Were you checking your work in multiple sources of light while you were working to insure that you were indeed satisfied before moving on?

 

4. How old are the wash pads you are using? Is there a chance perhaps there is some debris in the wash pad that introduced you to new swirls?

 

5. What is your drying process? Are you using a drying agent such as WW or DS?

 

Thank You,

Mook

[Z71_Denali]

have you inspected your wash mitts? could be something inside them deep down that's causing the issue. that or the swirls were there to begin with, and your just seeing them now in a different light after the dust was removed. BG does fill in minor swirling. how well did you inspect the paint before applying it?

 

a picture will help us really pinpoint the problem!

[CKYnick]

The swirls were removed, if I had my camera with me id be able to show you guys. I noticed the swirls the second I initially rinsed the car for the wash I did this weekend. I know they werent there before because I was a bit ocd about getting them out the first go around, and very happy I was able to get them all out. The swirls that are on the car now are different from those I removed, they seem much finer, but they are still very noticeable.

 

My drying technique is, sheeting rinse, I then use my electric craftsman leafblower for spots that retain water, then any residual spots I have two great white drying towels, I lay over the spot and lightly pull away or use them to spot dry.

 

Thanks!

 

Nick

[ChargerMatt]

Black cars my friend, they are the devil.

 

It doesn't matter how careful I am washing, drying, I always end up getting little swirls all over. The only thing to eliminate them completely would be a 100% touchless wash and dry.

[camaro2ssblack]

Hate to tell you but the minute you get finished with the detail on a black car the imprefections magically start to reappear. But seriously the fact that those swirls may have never really been removed or your drying technique is my guess...

[Bill-V8V]

Touch a car wrong, and you'll introduce swirls no matter what.

 

And unfortunately with black paint EVERYTHING shows