Black paint...micro-cracking in clear coat??

[XQIZT]

I've seen this problem occur on several black cars, including mc2hill's truck, the black Dodge Ram that was detailed by DaytonaJae, mc2hill and myself and now this '99 Accord. These marks were not apparent during the wash or claying process. As soon as you start with SSR (definitely necessary) on the Flex, BOOM, they crop up everywhere, primarily on "face up" surfaces like the hood and trunk lid.

 

 

I really studied this issue because I want to get to the bottom of it. They are pretty small, but I can catch my nail in some of them bigger ones. It appears as though they are microcracks in the clear coat that hold polish, and therefore reveal themselves. Even through SHR and FMP, they are still there. I tried wiping them down with some APC and that seems to work, but its very tedious and there are literally thousands of these marks, just on the hood alone.

 

I'm thinking that after polishing, maybe a strip wash or just an IPA wipedown? Glaze doesn't make them disappear, nor does sealant, so I can't just coat over them.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? Solutions?

 

I am sure that it happens on other colors as well, but on black, it's REALLY obvious.

 

Thanks guys!

[Team Adam's]

Looks like 'checking' or some kind of paint failure, but its really strange you only notice it after polishing.

[DaveVY]

I've seen a little of this in other colors... no answers from me yet.

 

[mc2hill]

When I saw the pic, and before reading the text, I thought "hey a picture of my truck!".

 

I do not think they are in the clear, but in the paint. I have wet-sanded some of my truck (3000 grit only) and they are still there, and I have use IPA over the area as well. BUT, on the Ram they were not noticeable until we stared with the polish. And the 'catching polish' kind of make sense.

Mine do not catch your fingernail, but may have been polished smooth by now.

[AngryPolska]

My Tahoe Limited has exactly the same thing on the front of the hood.

 

Only happened after polishing. You only really see it in direct light and up close.

[XQIZT]

WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLlllllllllll...after some research, first, the technical term is "crows feet" and nothing can be done to fix them other than a repaint. My suspicion was confirmed several times over. Usually the cracks are there and only become apparent when polish or wax fills them in. Hondas seem to have this problem more often...and sun exposure makes the possibility of them appearing worse yet. Now I am wondering how to get the polish out of the cracks...hopefully a good IPA wipedown will do.

[dipolley]

I was going to ask if this was on metal or fiberglass surfaces. i have seen this on fiberglass hoods (i.e., my hood, grrrr). Can't be fixed without a repaint. In the mean time, a black sharpie hides it well for the shows.

[XQIZT]

I was going to ask if this was on metal or fiberglass surfaces. i have seen this on fiberglass hoods (i.e., my hood, grrrr). Can't be fixed without a repaint. In the mean time, a black sharpie hides it well for the shows.

 

Metal. I realize that I can't make the crow's feet go away. At this point, I just want to get the polish out of them so at least they aren't so "in your face."

[dipolley]

Metal. I realize that I can't make the crow's feet go away. At this point, I just want to get the polish out of them so at least they aren't so "in your face."

 

I should take a picture of the blemishes on my hood. You will feel better about your situation. Easily 2 inches in diameter and there are about three of them. it came from the glass being sanded down and built back up. A failure in the gel coat essentially. I know how it happens with fiberglass but metal is a mystery to me.

[DaytonaJae]

When in doubt, put a Master Blaster on it. I was gonna suggest putting the micro nozzle on the MB and see if you can blow the polish out, but I would be afraid of it putting a dent in the metal haha, or worse yet, flaking off a piece of the paint from that crows feet edge already exposed.

[LFairbanks]

http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/~/media/Sherwin-Williams-Files/Files/Reference/Trouble%20Shooting%20Guide/tsg.ashx

[billawd]

I have read that it is paint failure on a different site. It's caused from no protection on the paint for a prolonged period of time. Both of my moms cars have this problem I'll try and get pics up. I tried wet sanding and 3 step polish I just got a bunch of shinny scratches.

[Team Adam's]

Mike,

 

IPA should work, but you're going to have to soak that spot... I'd put the sprayer on and just saturate the area to get some down into the spot and get the polish out. Aside from that I can't imagine much else is going to work.

[DaveVY]

Mike,

 

IPA should work, but you're going to have to soak that spot... I'd put the sprayer on and just saturate the area to get some down into the spot and get the polish out. Aside from that I can't imagine much else is going to work.

 

This will be quite the job! Mike said he has thousands of them... eek!!

 

Wonder if alcohol on the Flex/PC with the new gray pad would help you cover the large areas and remove the polish from these crows feet?

 

Sorry Mike, wish you were over this way and we could work to find a solution!

[XQIZT]

SOLUTION FOUND!

 

Everyone is correct that if this problem presents itself, you're basically going to need a full repaint of the panel some time in the future. There are several causes, including general neglect and poor paint work.

 

My concern was atleast minimizing the appearance. This technique worked pretty well, although its not perfect. After you complete your polishing and the surface is cool Cool COOL, liberally spray a large portion on the affected area with APC. (I did half the hood of the Accord at once). 4 sprays of APC on a grey pad on a PC. Setting of 1, no pressure, simply glide the pad around the surface, as if you were spreading sealant. You don't want the pad to spin too much, or the APC foams up and slings everywhere. Work up and down, left to right and do not let the APC dry. I was able to get about 10 passes before any signs of drying. Immediately spray the same area heavily with WW and wipe clean. Continue on the other half of the hood. Then rewash fully to remove all remaining APC/WW. Finish as you normally would with MSS or QS. I did not try a wax for fear of refilling the crowsfeet with another visible product.

 

Here's my logic that lead to this process. A machine (either Flex or PC) worked polish into the crows feet, filling them and making it really hard to clean out. Therefore, agitation with a strong cleaner should work to remove the polish. But at the same time, you don't want to reintroduce swirls into your freshly corrected paint. So the grey pad was my choice.

 

Claying did not work, IPA did not work, regular washing did not work, Revive did not work...etc etc.

 

Not sure of the long term affects of using APC on the paint, but I did not let it dry, so I believe I am going about it safely. And the paint was immediately rinsed, rewashed and finished with MSS.

 

At the end of the day, with DaytonaJae's and Mc2hill's help, it came out looking great. I'll post up some before and after's in another thread.

 

[GaryW]

Nice research Mike,, Good you caught it.

[Tim]

Would the Microfiber Revitalizer & Brightener work? It is designed to go after polishes, etc. Would it be safer than APC?

[Team Adam's]

Nice solution Mike!

[Z71_Denali]

nice solution! perhaps a mixture of 50/50 APC diluted with water would clean them out more safely than full strength?

[XQIZT]

nice solution! perhaps a mixture of 50/50 APC diluted with water would clean them out more safely than full strength?

 

Maybe. But straight IPA nor APC applied by hand and buffed with a towel was working so I just went full bore. If I ever encounter this again, I'll try some more gentle products and still use the pc and grey pad. I think agitation is the key.

 

I almost forgot the disclaimer: use common sense with APC on paint. Your results may vary.

 

 

Remotely posted by XQIZT Automotive

[FlyingDakota]

SOLUTION FOUND!

 

Everyone is correct that if this problem presents itself, you're basically going to need a full repaint of the panel some time in the future. There are several causes, including general neglect and poor paint work.

 

My concern was atleast minimizing the appearance. This technique worked pretty well, although its not perfect. After you complete your polishing and the surface is cool Cool COOL, liberally spray a large portion on the affected area with APC. (I did half the hood of the Accord at once). 4 sprays of APC on a grey pad on a PC. Setting of 1, no pressure, simply glide the pad around the surface, as if you were spreading sealant. You don't want the pad to spin too much, or the APC foams up and slings everywhere. Work up and down, left to right and do not let the APC dry. I was able to get about 10 passes before any signs of drying. Immediately spray the same area heavily with WW and wipe clean. Continue on the other half of the hood. Then rewash fully to remove all remaining APC/WW. Finish as you normally would with MSS or QS. I did not try a wax for fear of refilling the crowsfeet with another visible product.

 

Here's my logic that lead to this process. A machine (either Flex or PC) worked polish into the crows feet, filling them and making it really hard to clean out. Therefore, agitation with a strong cleaner should work to remove the polish. But at the same time, you don't want to reintroduce swirls into your freshly corrected paint. So the grey pad was my choice.

 

Claying did not work, IPA did not work, regular washing did not work, Revive did not work...etc etc.

 

Not sure of the long term affects of using APC on the paint, but I did not let it dry, so I believe I am going about it safely. And the paint was immediately rinsed, rewashed and finished with MSS.

 

At the end of the day, with DaytonaJae's and Mc2hill's help, it came out looking great. I'll post up some before and after's in another thread.

 

 

The used Black Pontiac we just bought had some small spots which left polish behind. Funny thing is I tried just washing again before machine super sealant and that did not do it. I did however just get my first gallon of waterless wash and that stuff worked wonders. My spots were microscopic but on that black car you can still see it. I can't say enough about the waterless wash.

 

Glad to see your solution worked as well. The All purpose cleaner is by far the most useful cleaner that I have used.

[camaroman]

1995 camaro ragtop...black.  They can be rubbed out, but it takes a lot of time.  Using a wool buffer and orbital with 3m "perfect-it", but it takes time.  Don't go too deep.