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"wash swirls"


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So, I'm finding it very hard to believe on a DD we are not introducing "wash swirls" (very small, mind you ) into our freshly corrected paint.

 

Has anyone really paid attention in the sun after a first wash after a full paint correction to the swirls if any?

 

I use two bucket wash, grit guards and all the goods. Dry GWT detail spary and the like.

 

My point I can't believe when one looks at the paint that it is 100% corrected still (AFTER WASH). NO, the paint was flawless both in sun and lights beforehand.

 

Garage queen, yes I could see no issues. Just seems on DD you will see some swirls. Point, this is what we all must learn to live with from what I see otherwise one would be P!!!ED after every paint correction and first couple of washes.

 

Any thoughts?

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So, I'm finding it very hard to believe on a DD we are not introducing "wash swirls" (very small, mind you ) into our freshly corrected paint.

 

Has anyone really paid attention in the sun after a first wash after a full paint correction to the swirls if any?

 

I use two bucket wash, grit guards and all the goods. Dry GWT detail spary and the like.

 

My point I can't believe when one looks at the paint that it is 100% corrected still (AFTER WASH). NO, the paint was flawless both in sun and lights beforehand.

 

Garage queen, yes I could see no issues. Just seems on DD you will see some swirls. Point, this is what we all must learn to live with from what I see otherwise one would be P!!!ED after every paint correction and first couple of washes.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thoughts are...we do everything we can do to "minimize" the damage. If you do a two bucket every week like I do, especially on the wife's DD, then at some point, you are going to inflict some damage. All it takes is the smallest bit of contamination on the wash media. I've noticed half way through my 2 buckets before, the smallest piece of debris on the pad. Soooo, where it would take you 1 wash to ruin all your hard work during a paint correction with improper technique, with proper technique it may be 20 washes. Then, all you'll need is a quick touch-up with some FMP, and your're good.

 

I don't care who you are, eventually you're going to have to correct you're paint again. If anyone can tell me they do 52 (random number) 2 bucket washes per year on their vehicle, and it looks like the day they did a full correction on it....don't think I would believe them:willy:

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Thoughts are...we do everything we can do to "minimize" the damage. If you do a two bucket every week like I do, especially on the wife's DD, then at some point, you are going to inflict some damage. All it takes is the smallest bit of contamination on the wash media. I've noticed half way through my 2 buckets before, the smallest piece of debris on the pad. Soooo, where it would take you 1 wash to ruin all your hard work during a paint correction with improper technique, with proper technique it may be 20 washes. Then, all you'll need is a quick touch-up with some FMP, and your're good.

 

Well said, I suspect I may have some "dirt" eluding the mitt inspections. Yes, the FMP quicky does the trick. I like this part not the big 3 step work out! :thumbsup:

 

I don't care who you are, eventually you're going to have to correct you're paint again. If anyone can tell me they do 52 (random number) 2 bucket washes per year on their vehicle, and it looks like the day they did a full correction on it....don't think I would believe them:willy:

 

Good to see that yes you will need to give attention to the paint more then you would think and the more anal you are the more the pain involved in keeping it swirl free.

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Well said, I suspect I may have some "dirt" eluding the mitt inspections. Yes, the FMP quicky does the trick. I like this part not the big 3 step work out! :thumbsup:

 

If you have the wash pads, they brush out really well without shedding. Now, if you have a sidekick or a MB, you can inspect your pad or mit by "blowing":confused: the pad and seperating the fibers, and it makes them really easy to inspect.

 

Don't minimize the importance of a 2-bucket pre-rinse to get most of the non-bonded contaminants off, this will help you later on. A foam cannon...dwell....rinse....then begin 2-bucket is what I do "most" of the time to get a good portion of the debris off.

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You'll always run the danger of introducing swirls. Even with a perfectly clean pad, if a grain of sand is blown on your wet car, it could get scrapped across the surface. Insta-swirl.

 

I've moved to another extreme of washing on the vette.

3 buckets. One for wheels and tires. One soap, one rinse.

3 pads. One 9x9 for the glass "greenhouse. " One Merino for the top surfaces and down to the "beltline." and another 9x9 for the lower surface. Since I can use and flip each pad before needing to get more clean wash water, I almost don't use my rinse bucket at all. Each pad only gets clean water once.

 

Heavy blast to knock off the big stuff, then foam, then wash.

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If you have the wash pads, they brush out really well without shedding. Now, if you have a sidekick or a MB, you can inspect your pad or mit by "blowing":confused: the pad and seperating the fibers, and it makes them really easy to inspect.

 

Well, looks like the master blaster will get double duty... new wash mitt on shelf is going into action as well.

 

 

 

Don't minimize the importance of a 2-bucket pre-rinse to get most of the non-bonded contaminants off, this will help you later on. A foam cannon...dwell....rinse....then begin 2-bucket is what I do "most" of the time to get a good portion of the debris off.

 

Always try and knock heavy dirt off. DO have a cheap (garden sprayer) I use a a foam gun sometimes, may need to get this back in action. WOuld like a foram canon but no power washer yet. This hobby is getting expensive!

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Doesn't a few coats of sealer and wax keep some of the washing damage from happening? Seems to me you'd have to wash off all the wax before you started scratching the clear coat again.

 

Am I assuming too much protection from wax and sealer?

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Doesn't a few coats of sealer and wax keep some of the washing damage from happening? Seems to me you'd have to wash off all the wax before you started scratching the clear coat again.

 

Am I assuming too much protection from wax and sealer?

 

Yes, you are. The only type of LSP type product that would "take one for the team" like that would be an Opti-Coat type product that is permanent.

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They're DDs so they'll take damage along the way day to day be it from the washing or the driving. I've resigned myself to a spring detail and fall detail for our daily drivers to correct what's accumulated over the driving seasons and winter. Usually doesn't take more though then a pass or two with FMP on 90% of the vehicle and a few spots with SHR.

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Usually doesn't take more though then a pass or two with FMP on 90% of the vehicle and a few spots with SHR.

 

 

I think that is what will be the case as time goes on, but it is rather amazing at how quick the "light" swirls come back and this is the tough part to take after 10 hour correction.

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Just a thought, but could it be these are swirls that you might have missed during the detail? I know that I have found some that I am sure I missed when doing the FMP, and show up better in a few weeks after the detail.

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I think that is what will be the case as time goes on, but it is rather amazing at how quick the "light" swirls come back and this is the tough part to take after 10 hour correction.

 

It's a tough pill to swallow, but even with all the precautions it is inevitable unfortunately. But, as others have said, the next time you polish it should only require FMP to knock out those swirls.

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Just a thought, but could it be these are swirls that you might have missed during the detail? I know that I have found some that I am sure I missed when doing the FMP, and show up better in a few weeks after the detail.

 

While this can be the case in some cases, mine it was not as I look over the area in full sunlight (which nevers lies) from all angles and I was happy.

 

I just feel that no one can show me a 100% or even 85% swirl free finish that has had severel washes and towel drys even following the "adams code of paint correction"

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I agree. I just posted a topic along these same lines. I removed all imperfections from

My Z the day I brought it home from the dealer. I washed it with two buckets and used a

Foam gun too. I noticed some swirls In the finish the last wash. It's been a full year

Since any corrections at all. My car is a daily driver with winter conditions to deal with.

I'm either not good enough at washing or simply unable to keep swirls away. Im thinking

I might do a correction every spring or something. I want my car to look good but I'm seeing perfection is an illusion unless your car sits in a garage it's entire life.

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I agree with Dave.I have a black car garage kept not driven in the rain and I've noticed swirls again its been almost 9months since I've polished it with the pc.I wash it weekly the swirls arnt that bad so when I'm ready to polish shouldnt have to do all three steps again.I think no matter how careful you are your going to get them over time

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This is a great thread!! DD will sooner or later will need some paint correction. Now you know why 'filler' type products are so popular. It's easy to hide them, but you have to keep hiding them, and hiding them and hiding them. Me, I prefer to use good technique and when I have time (no set schedule) hit it with the FLEX.

 

One thing, It's super easy to work on one panel at a time. No one says you have to do the whole car at once, especially if the swirls are not all that bad or very minimal. That's how I keep my Black Vette looking good. As time permits, I do the hood, or the back or a door and call it quits. Works for me!!

 

Sort of reminds me of the show I saw about painting the Verrzano-Narrows Bridge. They start on one side and go to the other. When they get to the end at the other side it's time to go back and start again. :)

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that's a great idea.I bought a flex last year have yet to try it because I never have enough time.I love the idea of a couple panels every so often to keep up on it rather than spending a whole day on it or more.thanks for the tip!

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I too have had problems with the swirls coming back much too soon. It is a daily driver, black car, and stays outside 100% of the time. Basically the worst combination ever! Unless it's dark outside, then it looks fantastic regardless of the swirls. :rockon: But I tend to get super fine swirl marks after I wash my car unless I am absolutely perfect with my technique. So basically I try and wash it once a week, and I use a California Car Duster once or twice a day. If I keep up with the dusting I find that there is little to no damage to the clear coat. If I miss a day I won't use it because too much dust builds up for a light dusting.

 

I have found that Brilliant Glaze and Americana are my best friends in this situation. They do a great job of masking up the super fine swirls that show up after a few washes. I would like to hope with more practice and experience things will become easier to do, but maybe it is just one of those things in life that you really have to put in the extra effort to get the results you want.

 

As a side question. In my wash routine I find that my water faucet doesn't give as much water pressure as I would like. I don't have an Adams fire hose nozzle, but I was wondering if buying an electric pressure washer is a better move. Given that the nozzle and on/off valve are $70, is it worth it to just spend a little extra money and get even more water pressure? Would the electric power washer be able knock off a considerable amount more dirt than the fire hose nozzle to stop more swirls from forming?

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As a side question. In my wash routine I find that my water faucet doesn't give as much water pressure as I would like. I don't have an Adams fire hose nozzle, but I was wondering if buying an electric pressure washer is a better move. Given that the nozzle and on/off valve are $70, is it worth it to just spend a little extra money and get even more water pressure? Would the electric power washer be able knock off a considerable amount more dirt than the fire hose nozzle to stop more swirls from forming?

 

This is a great question! Sometimes I think we can get all excited about how many buckets we use in the wash process. I have found that the pre-rinse is a CRITICAL part of reducing any wash swirls. This is my logic; if I was washing a truck that just came in from a mudding session and I just "wetted" it down and went to work with a wash pad with 2 buckets how far do you think I would be able to go with the wash pad without introducing swirls? The pad would instantly be grinding new swirls into the paint. So even though our DD vehicles haven't been "mudding" there is grit and grime all over that I want to remove as much as possible before touching the car with a wash pad.

 

In the past I used the pressure washer for this thorough pre-rinse, but once I received the fire hose nozzle AND did what I could to reduce the water restriction to the nozzle (got a 3/4" hose and got rid of the "extra long hose" which just added unnecessary length) I no longer use the pressure washer, except for very dirty vehicles. The fire hose nozzle is a "great" nozzle but it needs volume and pressure. If you don't have BOTH of those then it is an "ok" nozzle IMO.

 

If your pressure is too low and/or you cannot get the volume you need, you may need to use a pressure washer or alter your wash technique to be rinsing your wash pad after every couple feet.

 

:cheers:

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