No Mirror Shine

[Corners]

When I picked up my new Dodge diesel, I asked what they put on it to make it shine so good. They said all the did was wash it. I triple checked to see if it needed claying - nope - smooth as could be.

 

The entire truck felt like there was a sealant on it but there wasn't. Got it home and a few days later, did a thorough detail on it. For the life of me I could not get the shine where it's like looking into a mirror. Tried everything, every video Adam made.

 

Now nobody is going to believe this but after working and working to get a good shine on it I said the heck with it and didn't touch it, just drove it. Finally after it had so much dust on it I couldn't take it anymore and got ready to clean it. However, remembering how shined up it looked when I got it, I took one finger and "lightly" rubbed the paint just under the mirror, expecting some minor scratching. "Nothing! So I rubbed harder and harder and again, nothing.

 

Finally I took my hand and just my hand and slid it all the way across the hood. I was positive I'd be buffing that area out. Took some WW, cleaned it and there was not a single mark on it. So I tried it in different places and again, no scratches. Took a "dry" WW towel and rubbed it across the tailgate. Not a mark was left.

 

I'm not saying "nothing" will scratch the paint but I'm telling you your hand or dry towel or even the CA duster, using heavy pressure on it, will not leave any kind of marks on it.

 

Any clues as to why? I took it back to the dealer, talked to the detail manager and he told me what I was told when I drove it off the lot. All they did was wash it and that was it. I called Dodge and basically got my hind end chewed out for asking what they considered a stupid question. So much for customer service.

 

The attached pictures show what's "under" the clear coat and it's sure not smooth looking. The one picture looks like little rocks of gold and the silver pictures also show how rough the paint is. It has some orange peel on it which I think I can get out. However before I tackle that, I need to know what the heck Dodge sprayed or dunked the truck in to give the paint the protection is has.

 

This is a first for me. While taking photo's of it, I can see myself but it's blurred and again, nothing I've tried will give me the shine I expect/want.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Chewy]

Best bet Bill is to use macro and toss a flash into it. Some high end ceramic paint jobs are hard, but they still scratch. That color will be VERY hard to see them in though.

 

Chris

[Corners]

Best bet Bill is to use macro and toss a flash into it. Some high end ceramic paint jobs are hard, but they still scratch. That color will be VERY hard to see them in though.

 

Chris

 

Chris: I hope I'm understanding you correctly on this. I don't want to look like an idiot if I don't.

 

Are you saying to use a camera with a macro lens, with flash?

 

All the photo's I submitted were taken with a Macro lens. I did try a flash but it drowned out the pictures. I used a couple of my "lights" and gave it a good going over. Even got my super duper magnifying glass and with light and still could not find a single scratch on it.

 

I'm now headed out to my shop where I am going to do a 2 bucket wash using some APC and see if I can knock that shine off of it and then do a detail on it.

 

The attached photo's show the WW towels I used (dry) while taking some of the heavy dust off of it.

 

I believe there is absolutely no way I am going to get the rough colors under the clear coat out unless I dry sand and re-apply the clear coat. However that's a job that I would not look forward to doing.

 

As I said before, the truck, when you stand back and look at it, has a fairly decent shine on it. However, it's what's under the clear that is preventing me from getting that total "mirror" shine on it. At least that's my perspective on the problem.

 

I have had "light" silver colored trucks that have never gave me this problem and could always detail them and get the results I wanted. But with this dark Silver and even the different colored trim around it, I just can't get the paint to pop.

 

What I get when the truck is shined, and you stand real close to it, you can see your body reflection but it looks like it has a "haze" or a cloudy look to it.

 

The one attached photo is of the light Silver RAM I had. That would shine. Also take a look at the photo of the paint on it. Compare that with the original photo's I submitted in my first post. See how rough that paint is?

 

IF I can't get this mess figured out, there is a way to get a different colored new Diesel ~ go to the local mission, hand the keys to a guy along with two bottles of Mad Dog 20-20 or Ripple and let him take it out and shove it over a cliff.

[MAYBEN]

Weird

[Team Adam's]

Capturing a mirror like reflection picture in a heavily metallic paint job, especially silver is like trying to catch swordfish in the desert Bill... there usually isn't one!

 

The characteristics of metallic silver are going to be more of a 'glare' than a reflection. Just like you won't see 'deep' reflections in white paint, but you will in black.

 

Its simply not a characteristic of the color. Nothing wrong with that, but you're searching for something in that color that isn't really there. I had to play extensively with the ISO and F-stop on my camera even to capture a non-blown out shot of my silver paint in full sun.

 

The metallic shoots so much light back towards the lens that what I ended up with in most shots was this:

 

 

I had to go to an aperture of 18 with an ISO of 1600+ to get this:

 

 

Same position, same day, taken only seconds apart. You'll have to play with your settings to get a true representation of the paint. I think that it is scratching, its just that you can't see or capture it. In the end, if you can't see it is it really an issue? The biggest challenge I've found with this color so far was finding the imperfections and keeping them visible so I could fix them.

 

As far as whats under the clear. A base like that is a multi-part mixture... its not uncommon to have what looks like 'highs and lows' as the mixture isn't consistent over the entire truck like the clear is. So the surface itself (clear coat) is smooth, its just the mixture of metallics and pearls within the base giving you the appearance of a texture.

 

My silver is somewhat inconsistent as well as any factory metallic will be.... you expect it going in as thats just par for the course when it comes to 'robot sprayed' metallics.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Dylan@Adams

[Teman99]

Capturing a mirror like reflection picture in a heavily metallic paint job, especially silver is like trying to catch swordfish in the desert Bill... there usually isn't one!

 

The characteristics of metallic silver are going to be more of a 'glare' than a reflection. Just like you won't see 'deep' reflections in white paint, but you will in black.

 

Its simply not a characteristic of the color. Nothing wrong with that, but you're searching for something in that color that isn't really there. I had to play extensively with the ISO and F-stop on my camera even to capture a non-blown out shot of my silver paint in full sun.

 

The metallic shoots so much light back towards the lens that what I ended up with in most shots was this:

 

 

I had to go to an aperture of 18 with an ISO of 1600+ to get this:

 

 

Same position, same day, taken only seconds apart. You'll have to play with your settings to get a true representation of the paint. I think that it is scratching, its just that you can't see or capture it. In the end, if you can't see it is it really an issue? The biggest challenge I've found with this color so far was finding the imperfections and keeping them visible so I could fix them.

 

As far as whats under the clear. A base like that is a multi-part mixture... its not uncommon to have what looks like 'highs and lows' as the mixture isn't consistent over the entire truck like the clear is. So the surface itself (clear coat) is smooth, its just the mixture of metallics and pearls within the base giving you the appearance of a texture.

 

My silver is somewhat inconsistent as well as any factory metallic will be.... you expect it going in as thats just par for the course when it comes to 'robot sprayed' metallics.

 

 

 

WOW! This is so informative I felt it need to be repeated!

I never knew any of this!

Thanks

[Corners]

Weird

 

 

I'd be "banned" if I said what I think it is.

[Kingsford]

I've gone through this thread like 10 times and can't figure out what's wrong... The truck looks like a brand new shiny silver Dodge....

[Corners]

I've gone through this thread like 10 times and can't figure out what's wrong... The truck looks like a brand new shiny silver Dodge....

 

Jason: Yea, it's a new, right off the lot, 2012 Silver Dodge - well with gold metal flake in the paint for what ever that's worth.

 

And it does have a shine on it although when those photographs were taken, it had quite a bit of dust on it.

 

So far the post from Dylan is making the most sense and I'll be answering his here shortly in case ya want to read that.

 

I'm almost - I said "almost" to the point of buying a "black" diesel and get rid of this Silver one. At least with black, once ya get it thoroughly detailed, ya can see your reflection almost like looking in a mirror. Not with this monster I have.

 

However with a lot of things in life you end up with what you end up with and make the most out of it. Maybe once I get done with the mods it will make the truck look better.

[savi01]

I think your truck looks great the way it is. Unfortunately due to how the color is it will never have the shine such as a black truck, but in a way I think it's so much better. Easier to maintain; you won't have to spend so long trying to get any and all imperfections out of the color.

 

If the mirror-like shine is truly something you desire, like others have mentioned, you won't get it with this color.

[Corners]

I think your truck looks great the way it is. Unfortunately due to how the color is it will never have the shine such as a black truck, but in a way I think it's so much better. Easier to maintain; you won't have to spend so long trying to get any and all imperfections out of the color.

 

If the mirror-like shine is truly something you desire, like others have mentioned, you won't get it with this color.

 

True words! Well I've been down the road with a Black RAM truck and the wife "Still" has her black Mercedes. And, I've already put a bunch of money into this truck and now waiting for more "goodies" to be delivered which simply means I'm STUCK WITH IT!!!

 

No mirror shine I shall never see and what it is, is what it be ~ why oh why does it have to be me?

[Corners]

Capturing a mirror like reflection picture in a heavily metallic paint job, especially silver is like trying to catch swordfish in the desert Bill... there usually isn't one!

 

The characteristics of metallic silver are going to be more of a 'glare' than a reflection. Just like you won't see 'deep' reflections in white paint, but you will in black.

 

Its simply not a characteristic of the color. Nothing wrong with that, but you're searching for something in that color that isn't really there. I had to play extensively with the ISO and F-stop on my camera even to capture a non-blown out shot of my silver paint in full sun.

 

The metallic shoots so much light back towards the lens that what I ended up with in most shots was this:

 

 

I had to go to an aperture of 18 with an ISO of 1600+ to get this:

 

 

Same position, same day, taken only seconds apart. You'll have to play with your settings to get a true representation of the paint. I think that it is scratching, its just that you can't see or capture it. In the end, if you can't see it is it really an issue? The biggest challenge I've found with this color so far was finding the imperfections and keeping them visible so I could fix them.

 

As far as whats under the clear. A base like that is a multi-part mixture... its not uncommon to have what looks like 'highs and lows' as the mixture isn't consistent over the entire truck like the clear is. So the surface itself (clear coat) is smooth, its just the mixture of metallics and pearls within the base giving you the appearance of a texture.

 

My silver is somewhat inconsistent as well as any factory metallic will be.... you expect it going in as thats just par for the course when it comes to 'robot sprayed' metallics.

 

Well I can see that you've never been fishing in the desert, in Eastern Oregon.

 

Yes, what I've seen as far as a reflection goes in this paint is a glare but also more along the lines of blur or haze - take your pick.

 

I've used my professional Canon camera with the external flash on a hot shoe and shot from different directions, bracket shots so I wouldn't get any glare back from the flash. The photo's I submitted on my original thread were simply taken with a canon pocket camera strange to say.

 

Not sure if you've ever tried this but I learned it a long time ago when I was taking a photo class: If you want the best "close up" photo, use a telephoto lens. I have one that goes out to 600 - got back quite a ways, use my tripod and took several shots, using different settings. It sure works good on up close shots of faces, etc but didn't do a thing for the truck.

 

I noticed in your photo's, very smooth paint. Did you try using a Macro with or without an external flash? The ones I submitted with the pocket canon were on Macro with no flash and that's why I was able to get the shots I did. However I didn't have the camera on a tripod. Regardless, I now understand what it is you're saying ~ with one exception, that being, there is absolutely no scratches or swirls in the paint. I had the truck in the sun, in the shop with the overhead lights on it, hand held light, shop lights, any kind of light/s I had handy and again, I could not find a single mark on that truck. I know that's hard to believe and I couldn't believe it myself after first starting out by simply doing a light rub with one finger, over the dust and then pushing harder and harder. As I said in my original thread, I let the truck get totally covered in dust and dragged my hand across the hood. I can't think of any other possible means to check it for any defects - there were none.

 

This all started at the dealers when I picked it up. Thought they put a sealant on it but they didn't. I've never seen paint this hard in my entire life. But, I suppose that's a good thing and I completely and thoroughly agree if there is nothing there to see, yes that's a good thing.

 

But Dylan, so far we've talked about just the "silver" paint and not scratches, etc. Can you explain why, with the different color trim that's on the truck, even that will not scratch. I will say it again - it's hard to believe but when I had the service mgr and the detail mgr rub their detail "towels" - notice I did not use the word Microfiber towels - on the truck and they could not find any marring, etc. S/mgr is suppose to call dodge and ask them for an explanation. I called customer service but was treated like some idiot when I tried to ask them what it was that they put on the truck.

 

When I got home last night I noticed, as usual, the daily dust on the truck. Getting tired of using my M/F towels so I grabbed a clean/used t-shirt and ran that across the tailgate. Got a ton of black dust off, checked for anything and again nothing. But as you said, can't complain if nothing happens.

 

So with all of this being said and really appreciate your feedback, is there anything you can think of or recommend to get at least a better shine other than detailing the truck the way I've always done it and others, by watching the video's you and Adam have put out? Maybe two coats of something instead of one?????? Just grasping at straws here.

 

At the end of each day or very early in the morning, I have been using WW on it and some DS. Same thing with the wife's Mercedes. Only way I can stay on top of them before they get to dirty.

 

For the record - three coats of QS sprayed on the front of both vehicles has cut the bug cleaning time by 3/4's.

 

Well my Friend, I have a truck that I now know won't produce the shine I desired but so goes life. I still have some exterior chrome parts to put on it, front and rear differential covers, dual steering stabilizers, interior LED lights, etc. So maybe that will detract from the "no mirror shine."

 

Many thanks again