Learned the Hard Way

[mathews31]

So I did a paint correction on my 2010 Charger hood and roof, and well I had already used the SK15 once so I had come to the conclusion that I was a pro. Well if anyone's ever seen a 2010 Charger, the hood has a weird edge next to the windshield. I unfortunately came too close to the edge and burned through my clear coat. I figure I had to learn the hard way. I figured I would let you guys know so that maybe someone learns from my mistakes.

Edited March 24, 2017 by mathews31

[jswhite]

@LFairbanks - thanks for the information!

[avimore]

Here is a photo of the spot on my car after being washed and H2OGG applied .  I had to use my phone to block out the reflection of the sky!  The car has never been machine polished just Revive Hand Polished.  

 

It is a black 2010 LR4.  The hood is very temperamental with things like detail spray and H2OGG.  It streaks very easily and it is hard to remove the streaks.  I have to use a dry double soft or triple soft to basically wipe them off.  It is frustrating...

 

All that to say, I think this spot is the same type as the Original Poster's.  

 

Is there a thread that shows photos of different types of paint damage with suggestions on how to repair? Might be a nice resource.

 

I had a similar experience on my wife's 2016 Q5 after applying H2O G&G for the first time.  It has never been machine polished either but I did a full detail with RHP about 3 months ago.

 

The damage I saw on the Q5 was definitely not as bad as what you see in your picture, or the damage in the picture of the OP.  It looked more like dried water spots all over the hood (and other parts, but mainly the hood).  The strange thing is that I could clearly see the water spots after I applied H2O, but when I checked again around 24 hours later I could not see the water spots anymore.

 

Very strange.  Almost like H2O had some sort of reaction that makes the imperfections visible, but only for a short time (in my case).  I have tried looking for the water spots again since then and still can't find anything.

 

It's frustrating because even though I can't see them, I know they're there.  Is machine polishing the only way to get rid of the water spots?

[Chadley]

For those who asked here is a better pictures. Also for the record I didn't use any more than a speed 4 on this section.

 

I wish I had done this.

 

I have that exact damage on the hood of my black 2006 Dodge. It showed up before I bought my swirl Killer. I still haven't been able to fix it.

[Dan@Adams]

 

I have that exact damage on the hood of my black 2006 Dodge. It showed up before I bought my swirl Killer. I still haven't been able to fix it.

 

Damage like the left spot is known as crows feet - tiny cracks in the clear coat itself that appear to look like lots of tiny foot prints in multiple directions and multiple sizes. These can occur from several factors that weaken the clear coat to the point of failure: bird droppings that have etched into the clear coat, UV exposure, a paint flaw from the factory where the surface may not have been prepped correctly in that area, frequent extreme temperature shifts, and so on. The right defect looks more significant, maybe from bird droppings sitting on that area longer - bird droppings have acid that can do damage very quickly, especially if the vehicle is out in the sun when this occurs.

 

Unfortunately you won't be able to fix either of those without having a body shop sand and re-clear those spots. They may want to re-clear the entire hood for it to match properly. Sealants, glazes, and wax can help protect the area, try to reduce the appearance of the cracks, and hopefully prevent them from expanding, but I would not recommend running any machine polisher over these areas at a high speed since it would further weaken the clear coat in this area.

[Dan@Adams]

I had a similar experience on my wife's 2016 Q5 after applying H2O G&G for the first time.  It has never been machine polished either but I did a full detail with RHP about 3 months ago.

 

The damage I saw on the Q5 was definitely not as bad as what you see in your picture, or the damage in the picture of the OP.  It looked more like dried water spots all over the hood (and other parts, but mainly the hood).  The strange thing is that I could clearly see the water spots after I applied H2O, but when I checked again around 24 hours later I could not see the water spots anymore.

 

Very strange.  Almost like H2O had some sort of reaction that makes the imperfections visible, but only for a short time (in my case).  I have tried looking for the water spots again since then and still can't find anything.

 

It's frustrating because even though I can't see them, I know they're there.  Is machine polishing the only way to get rid of the water spots?

 

Hi Ed, when you were applying H2O Guard, was the vehicle out in direct sunlight, or do you have hard water in your area? After washing and rinsing, rinse water can very quickly start to dry onto the vehicle surface it it's hot outside or in the direct sun, so we always encourage moving the vehicle into the shade if possible when drying or applying H2O Guard using the wet application method.

 

You also want to make sure to only apply it to 1 or 2 panels at a time - spraying down the whole wet vehicle with H2O Guard is not recommended, as it will begin to dry onto panels and cause more spots or streaking. Also make sure to very thoroughly shake the bottle before every use to make sure all of the chemicals inside are mixed properly. I will quickly spray it onto 1 or 2 panels, for example a front fender and half of the hood (1 or 2 sprays onto the fender, 2 or 3 sprays onto the hood - a little bit of product goes a long way), and then immediately spread it with the wet towel and buff it off about 10 seconds later with the second dry microfiber towel. It can be a little bit tricky of a product to get just right at first, so if it is giving you trouble, you could try the dry application method listed on the bottle instructions as well.

 

The water spots could have been from previous washes, rainstorms, etc, that the Revive Hand Polish may not have been aggressive enough to remove. Revive is not designed to have strong correcting ability, but rather to bring out more color and remove very light paint transfer, fine scratches, and light oxidation. Some water spots can etch into the clear coat and in this case, the only way to easily remove them would be to machine polish. Some are even so severe from acid rain etching that machine polishing may not fully remove them. H2O Guard does add large amounts of shine and has some very minor filling properties in my personal opinion, so once it had cured into the surface after a few moments, it was most likely hiding the appearance of the spots under certain lighting and angles of reflection.

 

I hope that clears things up, let me know if you have any other questions!

[avimore]

Hi Ed, when you were applying H2O Guard, was the vehicle out in direct sunlight, or do you have hard water in your area? After washing and rinsing, rinse water can very quickly start to dry onto the vehicle surface it it's hot outside or in the direct sun, so we always encourage moving the vehicle into the shade if possible when drying or applying H2O Guard using the wet application method.

 

You also want to make sure to only apply it to 1 or 2 panels at a time - spraying down the whole wet vehicle with H2O Guard is not recommended, as it will begin to dry onto panels and cause more spots or streaking. Also make sure to very thoroughly shake the bottle before every use to make sure all of the chemicals inside are mixed properly. I will quickly spray it onto 1 or 2 panels, for example a front fender and half of the hood (1 or 2 sprays onto the fender, 2 or 3 sprays onto the hood - a little bit of product goes a long way), and then immediately spread it with the wet towel and buff it off about 10 seconds later with the second dry microfiber towel. It can be a little bit tricky of a product to get just right at first, so if it is giving you trouble, you could try the dry application method listed on the bottle instructions as well.

 

The water spots could have been from previous washes, rainstorms, etc, that the Revive Hand Polish may not have been aggressive enough to remove. Revive is not designed to have strong correcting ability, but rather to bring out more color and remove very light paint transfer, fine scratches, and light oxidation. Some water spots can etch into the clear coat and in this case, the only way to easily remove them would be to machine polish. Some are even so severe from acid rain etching that machine polishing may not fully remove them. H2O Guard does add large amounts of shine and has some very minor filling properties in my personal opinion, so once it had cured into the surface after a few moments, it was most likely hiding the appearance of the spots under certain lighting and angles of reflection.

 

I hope that clears things up, let me know if you have any other questions!

 

Hi Dan, thanks for your response.

 

I don't know if I have hard water in my area, but I definitely applied G&G in the shade on a mild day.  I started the application of G&G on the hood and followed the instructions you mentioned above.  I honestly didn't think I had any issues with using the wet method and found this application method of G&G quite easy to use.  I think you're right in that the water spots may have been there from previous washes/rainstorms.  Just before I applied G&G we had a really bad acid rain storm, so it could be that I didn't get to it on time.

 

I don't have a machine polisher, but I did recently get some Paint Correcting Polish with the Orange Polishing Hex Grip Applicator.  Assuming the water spots are not severely etched, do you think this will do the trick with some elbow grease?  If so, do I first need to go through the proccess of strip wash, claying, RHP before applying the Correcting Polish?

[Dan@Adams]

Hi Ed, applying the Paint Correcting Polish with the Orange Hex Grip by hand may be enough to remove the spots if they aren't severely etched, and I've had good luck with the combination before. I would recommend at least washing and claying the surface first, but a Strip Wash may not be entirely necessary. Me personally, I would wait around a month or so before removing the H2O Guard so that it's not a wasted application, and then proceed with the clay and polish then. 

 

Revive Hand Polish would come after using the Correcting Polish, since it is a much less aggressive polish intended for finishing work by hand.

[avimore]

Hi Ed, applying the Paint Correcting Polish with the Orange Hex Grip by hand may be enough to remove the spots if they aren't severely etched, and I've had good luck with the combination before. I would recommend at least washing and claying the surface first, but a Strip Wash may not be entirely necessary. Me personally, I would wait around a month or so before removing the H2O Guard so that it's not a wasted application, and then proceed with the clay and polish then. 

 

Revive Hand Polish would come after using the Correcting Polish, since it is a much less aggressive polish intended for finishing work by hand.

 

Thanks, Dan.  I will give this a try in about a month or so.  Although I'm a little confused that you say RHP would come after using the Correcting Polish, as I thought the least aggressive method should come first?  I also noticed in this video below that Adam uses RHP first and then Correcting Polish when trying to remove a scuff mark.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by avimore

[LT1xL82]

"The least aggressive method should come first" refers to using the least aggressive method for the job at hand. To do this, try the least aggressive (first), if it works don't use the more aggressive method. 

[avimore]

"The least aggressive method should come first" refers to using the least aggressive method for the job at hand. To do this, try the least aggressive (first), if it works don't use the more aggressive method. 

 

Thanks, Joel.  Yep, I get that.  I was trying to get clarification because Dan mentioned that "Revive Hand Polish would come after using the Correcting Polish...."

 

I thought Correcting Polish was more aggressive than RHP, but maybe I have that wrong?

[mc2hill]

Thanks, Joel.  Yep, I get that.  I was trying to get clarification because Dan mentioned that "Revive Hand Polish would come after using the Correcting Polish...."

 

I thought Correcting Polish was more aggressive than RHP, but maybe I have that wrong?

 

Maybe he was meaning 'after' in terms of aggressiveness?

So try Revive first, then move to CP if you did not get the desired results.  If you needed the CP, follow that up with Revive to finish polishing and as a paint cleaner.

[mathews31]

"The least aggressive method should come first" refers to using the least aggressive method for the job at hand. To do this, try the least aggressive (first), if it works don't use the more aggressive method. 

I've wondered about this because I feel like say you use the least aggressive and you take off a tiny amount of clear coat, then you go back and try the more aggressive because the less aggressive didn't work, and then you finish with the less aggressive, now you've taken off more than you would have just using the aggressive... It seems like it should be more on a case by case basis

[LT1xL82]

The goal is to find to least aggressive that does the job. If a more aggressive is used first and it works, it would be unknown if a less aggressive would of worked.

Edited April 6, 2017 by LT1xL82

[vobro]

I've wondered about this because I feel like say you use the least aggressive and you take off a tiny amount of clear coat, then you go back and try the more aggressive because the less aggressive didn't work, and then you finish with the less aggressive, now you've taken off more than you would have just using the aggressive... It seems like it should be more on a case by case basis

It should be case by case, that's why one should always perform a test spot. It's always best to start with the least aggressive. The Finish polish will remove far less than the compound and most times the finish polish is only strong enough to clear the hazing from the compounding stage. No offense but really anybody can lean on the paint and be way more aggressive than what is called for, the art comes in being able to judge what's best for you,customer, long term health of paint and over all value of the car.

Paint is getting thinner and thinner these days, I just did a '17 Honda Pilot that had paint gauge measurements of 90-97 on a lot of areas which is super thin. Yes if I didn't measure I could have gotten away with of compounding this time but I explained to the client that it's best to hit it lightly and be very careful if he were to bring it somewhere else next time. I hit it with FP with the white pad and got those areas just about perfect and still had the same readings on gauge.

Edited April 6, 2017 by vobro

[avimore]

Maybe he was meaning 'after' in terms of aggressiveness?

So try Revive first, then move to CP if you did not get the desired results.  If you needed the CP, follow that up with Revive to finish polishing and as a paint cleaner.

 

Ok thanks, that makes more sense.