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How much pressure to apply with PC?


How much pressure to use on swirls w/ PC?  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. How much pressure to use on swirls w/ PC?

    • No pressure, let the pad/chemical do their job
      7
    • Enough pressure to hear change in PC's motor
      24
    • Enough pressure to keep pad from spinning freely
      5
    • Enough pressure to keep pad from spinning at all
      4


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I think there are a number of variables that determine how much pressure to use. The combination of the product, pad and how responsive the paint/Clear Coat is to a certain combo. Also the type of abrasives the polish has in it could affect the pressure needed. Diminishing vs. non-diminishing.

 

I could be way off base and please feel free to correct me on this...but that is what I think about when applying pressure

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Use enough pressure to create smoke. The smoke means the swirl and haze remover is working! :2thumbs: But seriously, as long as you press down hard enough to hear a change in how the motor sounds then you should be good. The only way to know is to try it out and see what works! Shine one my Adam's bretheren!

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As a noob, this question still remains unanswerred. Suggest answers be measureable.....in example pressure in pounds, not in words such as alot, medium or a little which are opinionated at best. As recall there was a thread not long ago which had sugested poundage, however, these varied all over the place thus still no answer. Is there an official guide for various conditions? Thank you

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As a noob, this question still remains unanswerred. Suggest answers be measureable.....in example pressure in pounds, not in words such as alot, medium or a little which are opinionated at best. As recall there was a thread not long ago which had sugested poundage, however, these varied all over the place thus still no answer. Is there an official guide for various conditions? Thank you

 

Hi Bill

One of the reasons the answers varied is the fact that there are so many variances in paint and the damage people are trying to correct. You have everything from single stage to soft sticky clears to ceramic clears. Then you have everything from swirls, scratches to oxidation that is trying to be corrected. It takes practice practice practice. But that is just my $.02.

 

 

Bill

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:iagree:

 

Plus, stealing a line from the Junkman, you dont want to use a gorilla when a poodle will do. Working out scratches and other imperfections can take time, elbow grease and a process of trial and error. For me, the more times I have to go over the same spot, the less enjoyable the work is. Therefore, I make a best guess as to the correct pressure for the imperfection in question, and give it a shot. If that doesnt get it done, I press harder, and so on. I prolly am too quick to really lean on the PC with 30 lbs or more of pressure, but that's just me wanting to avoid too many iterations.

 

I tend to think that the right amount of pressure is whatever it takes to keep the pad from spinning at all. I wrote a couple lines on my backing plate to help me see if/when its spinning...nice litte trick, IMO

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As a noob, this question still remains unanswerred. Suggest answers be measureable.....in example pressure in pounds, not in words such as alot, medium or a little which are opinionated at best. As recall there was a thread not long ago which had sugested poundage, however, these varied all over the place thus still no answer. Is there an official guide for various conditions? Thank you

 

 

Unfortunately it will probably go unanswered as there are to many variables between paint clears and what people are trying to accomplish. There isn't a wrote in stone take on detailing but more trial and error for what the individual is trying to achieve.

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  • 1 month later...

Let me bring this thread back from the semi dead.

 

The amount of pressure that you apply does not depend on any variable that has something to do with the finish, it is totally dependent upon what setting you have the PC set. The higher the setting, the more pressure you can apply. Often on a setting of 5, I only let the weight of the polisher do the work.

 

The PC is only going to do so much work per pass. Look at it like a car's engine. Once you have the pedal all the way to the floor and the car has reached its maximum speed, pressing the pedal harder is not going to make the car go faster.

 

Here's another analogy, which is probably more true. Every car has a sweet spot when it comes to gas mileage. There is a certain speed that you can travel at and get the best gas mileage. Once you reach the peak of that curve, your gas mileage begins to drop. The PC is the same way.

 

The orbital polisher is spinning in two motions, orbiting and rotating. Each actions is 50% of the total ability of the polisher.

 

padmotion.jpg

 

When you are applying optimal pressure (which on a setting of 5, is practically no pressure at all), both actions are spinning equally and you are getting 100% of the cutting ability out of the polisher. As you begin to apply too much pressure, you start to cut down on the rotary part and the 100% cutting action begins to decrease. If you practically lay on the thing, you can get the effectiveness down to 50% because no matter how much pressure you apply, the orbiting action will continue.

 

Thus, applying to much pressure does not do more work, it creates more work (as in passes) that you will have to do in order to achieve the results that you are looking for. Yea, you're still cutting clear off the car but you're now wasting energy and causing the polisher to work harder. The only thing this does is wear the unit out faster. Couple this bad habit with using too small a gauge extension cord and you have just created the perfect storm to burning up your PC.

 

The PC should be looked at as medicine dosages are...

 

Just because 1X is good, does not mean that 2X is better. :thumbsup:

Edited by Junkman2008
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Hey junkman, I used your tip from one of your vids. Place a black mark on the backing plate so you can see what the polisher is doing. I have to say it works great. I can see the spin and tell if I'm placing too much pressure. :thumbsup: :pc:Thanks.

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When polishing my Black TB SS with the PC, I used the weight of the buffer all the way up to 'hear change in the PC's motor' and I got results faster (only 1 pass, not 2 or 3) by using pressure. One full, hard pass and I was swirl free. But I wasn't using Adam's swirl remover, I have yet to see anything that will sway me from my current scratch/swirl remover.

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Hey junkman, I used your tip from one of your vids. Place a black mark on the backing plate so you can see what the polisher is doing. I have to say it works great. I can see the spin and tell if I'm placing too much pressure. :thumbsup: :pc:Thanks.

 

That's the ideal way to gauge your pressure. No guessing when you see that black line coming around! :thumbsup:

 

When polishing my Black TB SS with the PC, I used the weight of the buffer all the way up to 'hear change in the PC's motor' and I got results faster (only 1 pass, not 2 or 3) by using pressure. One full, hard pass and I was swirl free. But I wasn't using Adam's swirl remover, I have yet to see anything that will sway me from my current scratch/swirl remover.

 

Trust me, there are a few products on the market that will cut must faster than Adam's Swirl & Haze Remover (SHR), however, there is a trade off. SHR, especially when used on a black car with an orange pad is going to cut the swirls and scratches out of the clear, but it is also going to do micro-damage. That's why Adam tells you to follow the SHR with the Fine Machine Polish (FMP). The FMP "repairs" the damage done buy the SHR. In 2 steps, you have went from swirl city to swirl and micro-damaged free paint. This technique mimics the process of wet sanding in which you follow a more aggressive sandpaper with a less aggressive sand paper. If SHR and FMP were sandpapers, it will be equivalent to going from 2500 grit to 3000 grit, the last to sandpapers that you would use in show car preparation.

 

Now you could go out and buy some Meguiar's Heavy Cut Cleaner and I guarantee you will be swirl free in half a pass with the orange pad. You will probably only have half, if any of the clear left on the car than when you made that half a pass. On top of that, the micro damage is going to be so severe, that you are going to have to follow the Heavy Cut with the Medium Cut, then use the Fine Cut and follow that with the Swirl and Scratch Remover. That 4 different product you must use before you get to the wax. That's more cost in product and and a hell of a lot more clear coming off the car than necessary (not to mention work). That's putting products in the hands of weekend detailers who are working on factory clear coats which are as thin as the law allows. That my friend is insane.

 

What Adam has done is given those same weekend detailers the ability to work safely, in that they are removing the least amount of clear off the car, while having to do the least amount of correcting the previous damage. He has created a solution that in 2 steps, has done what a more aggressive and expensive 4 step Meguiar's product will do. Adam has created and offered his customers what I like to call "the happy medium."

 

If Adam went with a more aggressive product, we would see thread popping up about, "What is the best way to touch up areas where I burned the paint off a corner?"

 

I've been there. I speak from experience and now I only use Adam's products. :2thumbs:

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I was speaking of 3M's Perfect It II, it is not aggressive at all. It is in the range of Adam's two products. I have used it extensively on black, dark red and blue and the results are always amazing. If I ever run out of my current supply of it I may switch to the Adams since I don't have any paint stores close that carry it.

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I was speaking of 3M's Perfect It II, it is not aggressive at all. It is in the range of Adam's two products. I have used it extensively on black, dark red and blue and the results are always amazing. If I ever run out of my current supply of it I may switch to the Adams since I don't have any paint stores close that carry it.

 

That's cool, but want I want to emphasize is that there are all kinds of compounds and devices that can cut your work time. That is not always a good thing and in the hands of a novice, may be a dangerous thing. Having to make multiple passes because of the compound you are using is always safer than cutting the clear off in one fell swoop without being able to measure what you've just done with a paint thickness gauge.

 

If I were to do this professionally, I wouldn't work without knowing exactly how much clear and paint is on the car from the beginning. That would totally depict my method of attack.

Edited by Junkman2008
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That's cool, but want I want to emphasize is that there are all kinds of compounds and devices that can cut your work time. That is not always a good thing and in the hands of a novice, may be a dangerous thing. Having to make multiple passes because of the compound you are using is always safer than cutting the clear off in one fell swoop without being able to measure what you've just done with a paint thickness gauge.

 

If I were to do this professionally, I wouldn't work without knowing exactly how much clear and paint is on the car from the beginning. That would totally depict my method of attack.

 

I do agree with this - and also what you said about weekend detailers using things they really shouldn't. I pulled in over $1000 last week just fixing mistakes of weekend detailers who bit off more than they could chew (without realizing it until AFTER they finished 10 hours later) - and with summer time around the corner, that figure is only going to go up.

 

A great rule to live by when polishing is to use the least aggressive combo first: it will ultimately save you massive amounts of time, work, and, like A.J. mentioned - it may save you a bit of clear coat thickness as well.

 

Since most enthusiasts aren't prepared to drop a few grand on paint thickness gauges, the best way to work around that is to keep the polishing technique safe and simple - which Adam's products do quite nicely!! And if I could get away with using only 2 Adam's polishes, I would.

Edited by Junkman2008
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I'm still learning a lot about the PC, working with applying different amounts of pressure. I've heard everything from applying 20-30lbs to 0lbs. I've been using a good bit of pressure so I put a black line on my backing plate like AJ said to see how fast the pad is spinning. I'm going to try what AJ said, and use no pressure. I imagine it would take more passes but I see the theory behind what he's saying about cutting the effectiveness of the rotary action by pushing too hard. The only thing that confuses me is I've heard Adam say before to apply a fair amount of pressure when correcting. I'm beginning to wonder if the reason I keep hearing so many different weights is because there is some leeway and there is not one set way. Wish I could get some hands on training.

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I'm still learning a lot about the PC, working with applying different amounts of pressure. I've heard everything from applying 20-30lbs to 0lbs. I've been using a good bit of pressure so I put a black line on my backing plate like AJ said to see how fast the pad is spinning. I'm going to try what AJ said, and use no pressure. I imagine it would take more passes but I see the theory behind what he's saying about cutting the effectiveness of the rotary action by pushing too hard. The only thing that confuses me is I've heard Adam say before to apply a fair amount of pressure when correcting. I'm beginning to wonder if the reason I keep hearing so many different weights is because there is some leeway and there is not one set way. Wish I could get some hands on training.

 

15 pounds of pressure is good for a PC (and for the Flex too, actually) - it's enough to correct your paint and not enough to exhaust you after the first panel you polish.

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