Paint Corrected, Remaining Scratches

[gemini70]

Hi Folks! I had my 2014 Dodge Durango R/T paint corrected back in October. So 3.5 months later the truck still looks amazing. I would say it has random light micro scratches across the truck, but you really have to shine a LED light at the right angle to see them. I keep trying to find more, but then realize howincredible the finish looks. This truck is my daily driver, and I follow all the suggested washing techniques to minimize scratching and marring. To say I'm obsessed is an understatement. 

Having said all that, is it worth trying to correct the small scratches left from the last correction? If it is, how, and using what products? I do have a 5.5" DA polisher, and 10" Orbital polisher that I use to apply polish once a month. If it is not worth it, then what do I use to either continue maintaining or mask the small scratches?

[falcaineer]

Is it worth trying to correct the small scratches left from the last correction? 

Probably not, at least not until spring, in my opinion.

 

If it is, how, and using what products? I do have a 5.5" DA polisher, and 10" Orbital polisher that I use to apply polish once a month. 

N/A. But I must say, polishing every month seems like a lot. Is it a garage queen? Or a daily driver?

 

If it is not worth it, then what do I use to either continue maintaining or mask the small scratches?

What do you have as your protection layer? HGG is a perfect maintenance step every 4-6 washes or so, especially if maintaining PS. Simple to apply and adds incredible shine. BG has some fillers, but it doesn't last long (week or 2 at most).

[falcaineer]

I ask about polishing monthly because in my experience, once (spring/summer) or maybe twice a year is sufficient. But what are you doing with your car to get it so beat up? Or is it just OCD (commonplace in these parts )? Just understand polishing can remove a very small portion of the clear coat each time, so over time, you may be doing more harm than good by doing it 12x/year. What am I missing?

 

One other thought...and please understand I don't know your level of experience...but are you confusing polish with it being a protective step? With the exception of the new 1-step polish just released, Adams polishes don't offer protection. Here's a good article for that:

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by falcaineer

[shane@detailedreflections]

There’s a difference between what we call “eye clean,” and perfection. Eye clean is satisfactory to 98% of the people. By this, we mean that in natural sunlight, the imperfections can’t really be seen. 

 

Under the harsh direct lighting we use, we can almost always find imperfections. When using a softer, diffuse light they disappear. 

 

I would not apply polish monthly. Polishes are abrasive by nature and remove some clear coat. The thickness of your clear coat is roughly the thickness of a post-it note (plus or minus). The more that you polish, the more clear you take off. As a general rule, we don’t try to take more than 1/3 of the clear coat off. Once clear coat gets thin, you start losing the UV protection quality.

 

I know it’s not available to everyone, but this is when paint thickness gauges are invaluable tools. 

 

I’d even stay away from monthly all-in-one products as even those contain tiny abrasives and monthly is a bit aggressive. 

 

To maintain the finish, once it’s polished use sealant and wax (or ceramic for ultimate protection). You can apply wax every month to every other depending on the wax you use. This will help maintain a sacrificial later on your paint. 

 

Other thoughts are to use proper washing technique with high quality supplies. Avoid automatic car washes. Things of that nature. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

[gemini70]

13 hours ago, falcaineer said:

1) Is it worth trying to correct the small scratches left from the last correction? 

Probably not, at least not until spring, in my opinion.

 

2) If it is, how, and using what products? I do have a 5.5" DA polisher, and 10" Orbital polisher that I use to apply polish once a month. 

N/A. But I must say, polishing every month seems like a lot. Is it a garage queen? Or a daily driver?

 

3) If it is not worth it, then what do I use to either continue maintaining or mask the small scratches?

What do you have as your protection layer? HGG is a perfect maintenance step every 4-6 washes or so, especially if maintaining PS. Simple to apply and adds incredible shine. BG has some fillers, but it doesn't last long (week or 2 at most).

 

FROM YOUR 2nd POST:

4) I ask about polishing monthly because in my experience, twice a year is sufficient (spring and fall for me). Maybe a little more in some cases. But what are you doing with your car to get it so beat up? Or is it just OCD (commonplace in these parts )? Just understand polishing can remove a very small portion of the clear coat each time, so over time, you may be doing more harm than good by doing it 12x/year. What am I missing?

 

5) One other thought...and please understand I don't know your level of experience...but are you confusing polish with it being a protective step? With the exception of the new 1-step polish just released, Adams polishes don't offer protection. Here's a good article for that:

 

I'm going to try and combine your two responses into this post.....

 

1) If I was to do anything it would definitely be for the Spring time. It's just too cold outside for me to do any type of work on the Durango outside of a quick rinse. Even that's sketchy as I don't want my driveway to freeze over. For that quick rinse, I literally wait for a day that's it's in the high 30's or low 40's to do a quick maintenance rinse or wash.

 

2) It's a daily driver, but I'm telling you I treat it like a garage queen. As the detailer that did my paint correction said, it's by FAR the cleanest daily driver he's seen.

 

3) In the detailing world, I don't have a "protective layer". HOWEVER, I do use an old school "polish" called Liquid Glass. I've used this product for over 20 years. It seems for all the polishes, waxes, etc. that I've used over the years, I find myself coming back to this stuff. I don't think the it works like today's traditional polishes, as is it does add a protective coat. The more coats, the more protection it provides. What it doesn't do is "fill" in the scratches. I may give that Brilliant Glaze a shot to see what it does to those small micro scratches.  

 

4) The polish, as I stated in #3, is extremely easy to apply and remove. Especially with the orbital polisher. It takes me all but 15 - 20 mins to do the whole Durango. I do it monthly (or maybe every 5-6 weeks) because I'm extremely OCD. Might explain why it's an extremely clean daily driver. I'm not doing anything to beat it up, I just like a spotless vehicle. But more so of my OCD about it. I do understand that most polishes are abrasive, and can remove the clear coat each time, but I know Liquid Glass is not made like that, but more as a protective layer. What's funny about it, is that whenever I had any body work done on my past vehicles, due to small fender benders, the body shops always questioned after they completed the job as to what I had on the paint. When I told them what I used, they typically responded as "ah, no wonder".

 

5) See my #3.........

 

In terms of overall experience, I won't admit to being a professional, as I've only worked on my personal vehicles, including my wife's cars. But I do have any eye for that perfected look. That's not just under normal daylight sun. When I wash my Durango, I'm consistently pulling out my swirl finder light to make sure what I just wiped down didn't scratch anything, or left any micro marring. I know my neighbors think I'm nuts!! When I park my Durango in the grocery parking lot, I ALWAYS park it under those huge lights, and I will walk around it a few times to see if there any additional scratches I've added. What's funny is, the Durango had tons of imperfections on it which I personally tried to correct with my DA and M101 Compound, with different types of pads. I got it as good as I could before handing it over to a professional to finish it off with a minor one-step correction.    

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention, my Durango is BLACK! Hahahaha........ 

Edited January 3, 2018 by gemini70
Forgot something important!!

[gemini70]

4 hours ago, shane@detailedreflections said:

There’s a difference between what we call “eye clean,” and perfection. Eye clean is satisfactory to 98% of the people. By this, we mean that in natural sunlight, the imperfections can’t really be seen. 

 

Under the harsh direct lighting we use, we can almost always find imperfections. When using a softer, diffuse light they disappear. 

 

I would not apply polish monthly. Polishes are abrasive by nature and remove some clear coat. The thickness of your clear coat is roughly the thickness of a post-it note (plus or minus). The more that you polish, the more clear you take off. As a general rule, we don’t try to take more than 1/3 of the clear coat off. Once clear coat gets thin, you start losing the UV protection quality.

 

I know it’s not available to everyone, but this is when paint thickness gauges are invaluable tools. 

 

I’d even stay away from monthly all-in-one products as even those contain tiny abrasives and monthly is a bit aggressive. 

 

To maintain the finish, once it’s polished use sealant and wax (or ceramic for ultimate protection). You can apply wax every month to every other depending on the wax you use. This will help maintain a sacrificial later on your paint. 

 

Other thoughts are to use proper washing technique with high quality supplies. Avoid automatic car washes. Things of that nature. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

Hi Shane....yes this does help, a lot. In terms of eye clean, I don't rely on natural sunlight to view the possible imperfections, although on most vehicles, that natural sunlight is enough to show swirl marks, haze, buffing circles, etc,. I do have a handheld LED light that I use to view my Durango. It's pretty cool to see the difference in the paint of what my Durango looked like before the paint correction was done, to now. I'm almost compulsive about it now too, and literally shining that LED on the whole vehicle, one panel at a time just to catch that one new scratch. Which is what I eluded to in my original post, that there are some small scratches that were either left over from the past correction or just new ones from daily use of the truck. You can't see them unless the light hits them right, or I shine the LED at the right angle. 

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention, my Durango is BLACK! Hahahaha........ 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by gemini70

[shane@detailedreflections]

My point in eye clean versus perfection was that it’s easy to get carried away removing every defect in search of the perfection.  These scratches you’re chasing and trying to remove may not even be visible under normal light. I can shine harsh LED lighting on most vehicles and find imperfections. Roll it out in the sun, and they’re gone.

 

You may be removing clear coat to chase a scratch that isn’t visible under normal viewing conditions. Is that worth it?  There is not unlimited amounts of clear to play when. Food for thought....

[Nickfire20]

Is this your go to Gemini?

[gemini70]

35 minutes ago, shane@detailedreflections said:

My point in eye clean versus perfection was that it’s easy to get carried away removing every defect in search of the perfection.  These scratches you’re chasing and trying to remove may not even be visible under normal light. I can shine harsh LED lighting on most vehicles and find imperfections. Roll it out in the sun, and they’re gone.

 

You may be removing clear coat to chase a scratch that isn’t visible under normal viewing conditions. Is that worth it?  There is not unlimited amounts of clear to play when. Food for thought....

And that was the purpose of my post....is it worth it for me to chase that 10-20% perfection, when in the normal sunlight they are not visible. I think you may have answered it. My OCD tendency to be 100% perfect may need to wait until I start seeing these scratches in the normal daylight. When another one-step correction makes sense for the entire vehicle. Should I use Brilliant Glaze to do some of the "filling" as a short time solution?

[gemini70]

1 hour ago, Nickfire20 said:

Is this your go to Gemini?

AND there it is!! "The Holy Grail" of car polish. Hahaha. You have any idea how hard it is now to get this stuff?

 

I do believe it's safe for me to use other products in conjunction with this, and why I've turned to Adam's products for that. I'm already using the Car Wash Shampoo, Waterless Wash (although I've never used a Waterless Wash and absolutely petrified), ECO APC, Wheel Cleaner, Interior Detailer, and Super VRT.

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by gemini70

[shane@detailedreflections]

1 hour ago, gemini70 said:

And that was the purpose of my post....is it worth it for me to chase that 10-20% perfection, when in the normal sunlight they are not visible. I think you may have answered it. My OCD tendency to be 100% perfect may need to wait until I start seeing these scratches in the normal daylight. When another one-step correction makes sense for the entire vehicle. Should I use Brilliant Glaze to do some of the "filling" as a short time solution?

 

For a daily driver that’s been polished often, chasing that perfection isn’t worth it. Risk versus benefit. Eventually the clear coat will become thin and failure will be a very real risk. 

 

If I’m reading the polish right, it has no last step protection. That’s part of why your vehicle is susceptible to scratches and requiring more frequent polishing. You would want to polish then seal, glaze and wax.

 

Glaze does have some filling properties, but is a short lived product. One to weeks is the lifespan. It’s great for the extra “pop,” but won’t offer any protection. 

 

Not knowing how abrasive the polish you’ve been using is, or how frequently you’ve been polishing it’s difficult to say what’s left of your clear coat. I’d suggest having it measured (contact a detailer in your area). I would do this for free for anyone interested. Once I know what’s left, I’d decide on a one or two step correction with appropriate protection for the last step. Ceramics will give you the longest lasting protection. Waxes and sealants need to be reapplied. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by shane@detailedreflections

[Nickfire20]

But the can says it lasts a lifetime ??‍♂️

 

 

[gemini70]

28 minutes ago, shane@detailedreflections said:

 

For a daily driver that’s been polished often, chasing that perfection isn’t worth it. Risk versus benefit. Eventually the clear coat will become thin and failure will be a very real risk. 

 

If I’m reading the polish right, it has no last step protection. That’s part of why your vehicle is susceptible to scratches and requiring more frequent polishing. You would want to polish then seal, glaze and wax.

 

Glaze does have some filling properties, but is a short lived product. One to weeks is the lifespan. It’s great for the extra “pop,” but won’t offer any protection. 

 

Not knowing how abrasive the polish you’ve been using is, or how frequently you’ve been polishing it’s difficult to say what’s left of your clear coat. I’d suggest having it measured (contact a detailer in your area). I would do this for free for anyone interested. Once I know what’s left, I’d decide on a one or two step correction with appropriate protection for the last step. Ceramics will give you the longest lasting protection. Waxes and sealants need to be reapplied. 

Help me on the polish part? The polish I am using does offer protection. Each coat applied lays on thicker. As my earlier post said, "... whenever I had any body work done on my past vehicles, due to small fender benders, the body shops always questioned after they completed the job as to what I had on the paint. When I told them what I used, they typically responded as "ah, no wonder". "   Some may say it's a marketing scam, or snake oil, but I have used this stuff for 20+ years. It provides a layer of protection like nothing I've used before. I didn't want to argue that piece. If anything, it was more about was it worth to paint correct for a few scratches.

 

I may just need to experiment with Adam's Paint Sealant, Buttery Wax, or Brilliant Glaze to see if it hides or fills in some of the micro scratches. Or just keep using the same LG since it's non-abrasive and claims to not harm the clear coat.  

 

[gemini70]

1 hour ago, Nickfire20 said:

But the can says it lasts a lifetime ??‍♂️

 

 

Pretty bold statement for sure. Nothing lasts a lifetime. But hey, if you keep re-applying it, now that might be a different story.

 

[Beemer]

44 minutes ago, gemini70 said:

Help me on the polish part? The polish I am using does offer protection. Each coat applied lays on thicker. As my earlier post said, "... whenever I had any body work done on my past vehicles, due to small fender benders, the body shops always questioned after they completed the job as to what I had on the paint. When I told them what I used, they typically responded as "ah, no wonder". "   Some may say it's a marketing scam, or snake oil, but I have used this stuff for 20+ years. It provides a layer of protection like nothing I've used before. I didn't want to argue that piece. If anything, it was more about was it worth to paint correct for a few scratches.

 

I may just need to experiment with Adam's Paint Sealant, Buttery Wax, or Brilliant Glaze to see if it hides or fills in some of the micro scratches. Or just keep using the same LG since it's non-abrasive and claims to not harm the clear coat.  

 

 

The problem is a matter of terminology.   In the Adam's Polishes ecosystem the term "polish" refers to an abrasive product that, when used with a machine polisher, actually removes a tiny bit of clear coat in order to level, clean and shine the painted surface. It does not (generally) include protection. Just removes defects from the clear coat.

 

Protection in generally added after polishing in the way of sealants, waxes and coatings. This is in order to protect the just corrected paint and help the paint stay nice longer.

 

The problem is that many other products are billed as "polish" when they are not really removing any blemishes.  They are just shining up the existing surface.

 

I'm not discounting the satisfaction you have with that other product - I'm just trying to clear up the terminology used with Adam's products.

 

I started out years ago with Zaino products and it was never clear to me what product was doing what.  I switched to Adam's because the whole line just made more sense to me.

 

If you watch all of the Adam's videos you will get a real nice idea of what the products do and how they fit into an overall detailing plan.

 

[shane@detailedreflections]

1 hour ago, gemini70 said:

Help me on the polish part? The polish I am using does offer protection. Each coat applied lays on thicker. As my earlier post said, "... whenever I had any body work done on my past vehicles, due to small fender benders, the body shops always questioned after they completed the job as to what I had on the paint. When I told them what I used, they typically responded as "ah, no wonder". "   Some may say it's a marketing scam, or snake oil, but I have used this stuff for 20+ years. It provides a layer of protection like nothing I've used before. I didn't want to argue that piece. If anything, it was more about was it worth to paint correct for a few scratches.

 

I may just need to experiment with Adam's Paint Sealant, Buttery Wax, or Brilliant Glaze to see if it hides or fills in some of the micro scratches. Or just keep using the same LG since it's non-abrasive and claims to not harm the clear coat.  

 

 

If your question was about chasing scratches, I think the general sentiment is not to. Or understand you do so at the risk of your clear coat. That’s a personal choice. Sometimes we have to know when to say when. 

 

I missed the part about containing no abrasives. Polish by nature is abrasive technology. That’s why Adam’s revive is consider a chemical/cleaner polish. It doesn’t contain abrasives that traditional polishes do. It’s more or less to really clean the paint off.

 

I’m curious what the protection in the Liquid Glass is. The can states that it “contains no wax.” That’s not to say there’s no other products in it, but without knowing what it is it’s difficult to maintain it. 

 

Keep in mind that your vehicle is a daily driver. It’ll look great and may not be perfect. Even my garage queen has some imperfections in it. I constantly battle if I want to go after them aggressively and that’s on a car that’s been ceramic coated.

 

Perfection and protection is a very delicate balance. Don’t tip the scales too far in either direction. 

[Nickfire20]

1 hour ago, gemini70 said:

 

I may just need to experiment with Adam's Paint Sealant, Buttery Wax, or Brilliant Glaze to see if it hides or fills in some of the micro scratches.  

 

 

I use all these products and they all work great!  You will love them all!

 

As for Brilliant Glaze, its my fav!  It definitely fills minor swirls and adds a ton of gloss.  It is super easy to use!  I’ve never used anything easier, I have 3 bottles of it and use it a few times a week after waterless washes.  It adds tons of gloss and makes paint look dripping wet!

Edited January 3, 2018 by Nickfire20

[falcaineer]

4 hours ago, gemini70 said:

Pretty bold statement for sure. Nothing lasts a lifetime. But hey, if you keep re-applying it, now that might be a different story.

 

 

Technically, people do.  

[gemini70]

4 hours ago, Beemer said:

 

The problem is a matter of terminology.   In the Adam's Polishes ecosystem the term "polish" refers to an abrasive product that, when used with a machine polisher, actually removes a tiny bit of clear coat in order to level, clean and shine the painted surface. It does not (generally) include protection. Just removes defects from the clear coat.

 

Protection in generally added after polishing in the way of sealants, waxes and coatings. This is in order to protect the just corrected paint and help the paint stay nice longer.

 

The problem is that many other products are billed as "polish" when they are not really removing any blemishes.  They are just shining up the existing surface.

 

I'm not discounting the satisfaction you have with that other product - I'm just trying to clear up the terminology used with Adam's products.

 

I started out years ago with Zaino products and it was never clear to me what product was doing what.  I switched to Adam's because the whole line just made more sense to me.

 

If you watch all of the Adam's videos you will get a real nice idea of what the products do and how they fit into an overall detailing plan.

 

Hi Beemer...appreciate the explanation. I've spent countless hours going over videos on Adam's products, and some other main brands. I agree that terminology is different, and you are right that the Adam's product line just makes sense. It's why I am converting a part of my products to Adam's. From the reviews and research I've done, definitely going to use these products going forward, except for the "polish". ?

[gemini70]

4 hours ago, shane@detailedreflections said:

 

If your question was about chasing scratches, I think the general sentiment is not to. Or understand you do so at the risk of your clear coat. That’s a personal choice. Sometimes we have to know when to say when. 

 

I missed the part about containing no abrasives. Polish by nature is abrasive technology. That’s why Adam’s revive is consider a chemical/cleaner polish. It doesn’t contain abrasives that traditional polishes do. It’s more or less to really clean the paint off.

 

I’m curious what the protection in the Liquid Glass is. The can states that it “contains no wax.” That’s not to say there’s no other products in it, but without knowing what it is it’s difficult to maintain it. 

 

Keep in mind that your vehicle is a daily driver. It’ll look great and may not be perfect. Even my garage queen has some imperfections in it. I constantly battle if I want to go after them aggressively and that’s on a car that’s been ceramic coated.

 

Perfection and protection is a very delicate balance. Don’t tip the scales too far in either direction. 

 

Agree 100%. For now I will protect as the scratches I can only see if I use my LED swirl light, and even with that it's very difficult to see. I mean I really need to get at some weird angle to see them. Appreciate your help and time in responding.