First detail with PC/Adams -- Kinda Frustrated

[Z51L9889]

I attempted my first paint correction over the weekend on my 2006 Pacifica. We have owned it a bit over 3 years, and I'm ashamed to admit that I have never waxed it. In general, the paint is in decent shape. It does have spider and swirl marks but they are what I would call moderate at worst. Other than the original dealer prep, the car either has been washed by hand or in a touchless wash.

 

I washed, clayed, and dried the car with compressed air Friday night. I then went inside and got ready to work by watching both the Adam's CD and the Junkman series as well as reading a bunch of the threads.

 

After spending two full days on the car, I have gone over every panel at least once with SHR and FMP. I did get a noticeable reduction in swirls etc, but I am by no means swirl free. I tried several different techniques and nothing really seemed to work all that well. I spent literally the entire day on Saturday on the hood. After a full day with mixed results at best, I went ahead and did SHR/FMP on the rest of the car as best I could. Here is a partial list of what I tried on the hood:

 

Worked in small sections, no bigger than 2 ft x 2 ft. For example, I did the hood in six sections, each door was two sections, and so on.

 

For the area described above, I used a thin continuous circle of product applied about 1/2 to 1" in from the edge of the pad.

 

I worked the product until I had a uniform greasy looking haze and did at least two full cycles of criss-cross motion. I was using a very slow steady motion. For grins, I timed myself at 30 seconds to travel the width of the hood.

 

I started with SHR/orange, heavy pressure on the PC (enough to almost stall the pad and really heat up the buffer) at 5K OPM. I did two passes and maybe 1/2 the marks came out. I cranked the PC up to 6K and did two more passes with no change. I then tried FMP/orange with no change in technique with no change in the finish.

 

By that point, my arms were so tired that I tried the Junkman's technique of letting the action of the buffer do the work with moderate pressure. I did two passes of SHR/orange this way and noticed some difference in gloss but no difference in the number of scratches.

 

Since the Junkman indicated in his videos that he got better results with FMP with his technique, I tried that too. Again, I didn't notice much difference.

 

At this point, I had spent almost 7 hours just on the hood and corrected maybe 60-70% of the damage. I was so discouraged I called it a day. On Sunday, I decided to do the rest of the car with SHR/orange and FMP/white and take whatever improvement that got me.

 

At this point, the paint is clean and shiny, but I still have noticeable scratching. I did a coat of MSW on the roof for protection reasons but I left the rest of the car as is because I figure I'll go at it again after I get some advice.

 

I know the problem is with my technique and not the products. Nevertheless, I'm extremely frustrated. I tried both popular methods shown in the videos and repeated them exactly. I know that I applied more than enough pressure using Adam's method -- I was pushing so hard during a couple of passes on the hood that the PC was really laboring and got extremely hot. I also tried lesser amounts of pressure.

 

I washed the pads several times during the course of the ordeal just to make sure I got maximum effectiveness in addition to varying the amount of product I used. Nothing I tried seemed to work.

 

I'm out of ideas. Please help ......

[Bill-V8V]

Hi Todd

90% of people get frustrated on their first attempt with a PC, I've been there and done that too !!!! Just relax and have fun with it. I guarantee your technique will improve dramatically after just a few uses. One thing I'd like to see you try is less product on the pad. I use much less than you will see most people use and utilize the cutting action of the pad. Sometimes with too much product on the pad you will more or less just float across the product and not get much correction. Can you get a few pictures of the paint ?

 

Don't worry, we will help you get where you want to go :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Z51L9889]

I'll get some pictures tomorrow. I didn't get a chance to do it tonight.

[Baron_Von_Awesome]

Speed: Move about an inch per second with the PC

Pressure: About 15 pounds of pressure

Polish: Use 3 pea sized drops of polish on the first panel you do - 2 pea sized drops for every subsequent panel.

Work Area: Cut your panel size down a bit: 4 square feet is massive. Do 18" x 18" at the most (cut that down to 12" x 12" if it's hot & humid)

OPM: Use speed 3 to spread the polish, 6 to break it down, then go back to speed 3 for a few passes when it flashes clear (if it looks greasy, the polish did not break down all the way)

 

Chrysler clears aren't that hard, so, if you have another go at, it the results should be better. Be patient!! It's also possible that the marks you're seeing may be too deep to be addressed with the PC. Post some pictures for us when you can

[Team Adam's]

I'm gonna have to agree... sounds like a case of just too much product and maybe not working the polish long enough. Don't get too discourage... some more time with it and you'll be much more proficient.

[Adam]

Hi Todd, and I appreciate your business, and apologize that your results were not excellent, and immediate.

 

Some finishes are absolutely beyond a Dual Action Polisher, and need a Rotary Buffer to be corrected.

 

Still, your explanation of the finish on your Pacifica doesn't sound that bad, not at all, unless it was brush washed or driven through the car wash a dozen or more times.

 

Let's talk about the finish, and devise a strategy to get it perfect! We will get it dialed in, and I'm willing to send one of our team members to your home if we cannot achieve the results you are expecting.

 

My cell is 303-718-9480, and email: Adam@AdamsPolishes.com.

 

Let's make the Pacifica perfect. Thanks,

 

-Adam:thumbsup:

[BrianT]

I'm willing to send one of our team members to your home if we cannot achieve the results you are expecting.

 

My cell is 303-718-9480, and email: Adam@AdamsPolishes.com.

 

Let's make the Pacifica perfect. Thanks,

 

-Adam:thumbsup:

 

Customer service

[Z51L9889]

Thanks for the responses!

 

I haven't had a chance to do a close inspection of the car in the sun yet, but I'll do that today and get some pictures. However, I could see swirls, etc fairly easily under the lights in the garage, so I'm sure I'll find more in natural light.

 

Adam -- thank you for your support and generous offer! It is very rare to find a company that has this level of customer service. Also, there is absolutely no need to apologize for my lack of results. As I stated before, I'm sure it's my technique and not the products.

 

I will try again in the next day or two using less product and a smaller panel size per the recommendations and see what that gets me.

[estecoca]

One tip that helped me to overcome my frustration was along the same lines of using too much product...the tip was to not try to use the same pad for the entire vehicle as it may become saturated with product and cause the pad surface to not effectively touch the finish. I think it was that 'Valentine' guy who said that he either focuses on one area of the car and washes the pads before changing areas, or he uses multiple pads as he goes...

 

There are lots of good tips and techniques described on here. As I am still a novice with the PC, I get the feeling that using it is a lot like playing golf...it's all about technique.

Edited May 19, 2009 by estecoca

[70'sChevyGirl]

What other company do you know that would offer to send a rep to your house to help correct a problem????

 

Adam Rocks!!!

[D C]

What other company do you know that would offer to send a rep to your house to help correct a problem????

 

Adam Rocks!!!

 

Adam's does

[Junkman2008]

... Let's talk about the finish, and devise a strategy to get it perfect! We will get it dialed in, and I'm willing to send one of our team members to your home if we cannot achieve the results you are expecting.

 

-Adam:thumbsup:

 

You're only 147 miles from the Junkman! I bet I can make those swirls disappear and critique your technique at the same time. You got a grill?

[Z51L9889]

Have I got a grill? The man wants to know if I have a grill ?????

Weber Summit Series -- not sold in many stores. I had to order it directly from Weber. 60,000 BTU, all stainless, side burner, oh YESSSSSSS!!

 

Unfortunately, just like everything else I own, it needs detailing too.

 

Louisville is not that far at all. I'll give it another go and if I can't get it where I want, it will be "Junkman to the Rescue"!

[Adam]

Junkman, you plan on being in LA at all tomorrow? Care to meet up at the warehouse? If not, I'll be there in the afternoon, and would love to connect and get your finish perfect.

 

My cell is 303-718-9480, and I'm about to sign off the computer tomorrow night. Please shoot me a call if we can meet up!

 

Thanks:D

[Z51L9889]

I finally got a chance to inspect my work in the daylight, and it actually looks much better outside than under the halogen lights at night.

 

I would say that about 90% of the swirls, etc are gone based on the daylight inspection as opposed to the 60-70% I stated earlier when I checked it under the lights. I wonder, couldthe pearl in the paint be reflecting the sunlight differently than the halogen light and hiding some of the flaws?

 

Here are some pictures. Unfortunately, I couldn't get the camera to capture exactly what I wanted to show. There are small scratches and light swirls visible to the eye that did not show up in the pictures. I'm not a photographer so please excuse the quality of the pictures.

 

This first shot of the hood shows about 1/2 of what I could see. Keep in mind that this is after 6-7 hours of work on the hood alone, and this paint was in far better condition than a lot of the before pictures I have seen here on the forum.

 

 

 

Only one heavy scratch shows here, but there are several small scratches in this area also.

 

 

 

This picture is a pretty good representation of what I see under the lights. The whole car has little swirl scratches like this. For some reason, most of this stuff disappeared in the sun. The long horizontal scratch is a left over from an encounter with a storage shelf a few years ago. I was able to wetsand out almost all the damage.

 

 

Another shot of the same area:

 

 

In general, I'm pretty pleased with the results. The paint is nice and shiny, even without any wax.

 

 

 

I have to apologize for going on a bit of a rant with my first post in the thread. The car looks TONS better in the daylight, as the above shot shows, although I feel like I should be able to get rid of all but a couple of the scratches even in the most unflattering light conditions. I'll try to get after the damage that is left in the next couple of days using less product and a small work area.

 

As far as product goes, I'm thinking I'll start with SHR on a white pad. Suggestions and comments are welcomed.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Z51L9889

[Adam]

Looks pretty clean now Todd, and I am pleased that you are pleased. Still happy to help, and the offer stands to walk you through personally.

 

I'm here, as are the rest of us!

 

-Adam:patriot:

[bobfred44]

Thanks for the responses!

 

I haven't had a chance to do a close inspection of the car in the sun yet, but I'll do that today and get some pictures. However, I could see swirls, etc fairly easily under the lights in the garage, so I'm sure I'll find more in natural light.

 

Adam -- thank you for your support and generous offer! It is very rare to find a company that has this level of customer service. Also, there is absolutely no need to apologize for my lack of results. As I stated before, I'm sure it's my technique and not the products.

 

I will try again in the next day or two using less product and a smaller panel size per the recommendations and see what that gets me.

 

 

Todd, As you continue to use Adams Polishes, you better get use to EXCELLENT customer service. No many companies beat Adams in that category. Also, there is plenty of support here on the forum from members that are experts and are very willing to help. They all helped me at different times and with different issues. I will be watching the replies to your questions since that is another way I learn. Good luck and a couple of months down the road you will be helping others.

[Devin04]

My baby sits in my friend's garage after a full day of cleaning, claying, and prep for a full car polish tomorrow. This will be the first time I've ever polished a whole car, I didn't think too much of the pads caking up (I only have one of each) hope this doesn't become an issue. You said you washed your pads while working. I'd say just make sure they are not wet when you go to use them again; the water can cut back on the effectiveness of the products. Like I said, I'm still new to the PC and don't have much experience, but I remember hearing that somewhere. Good luck with the swirls.

[Junkman2008]

Have I got a grill? The man wants to know if I have a grill ?????

Weber Summit Series -- not sold in many stores. I had to order it directly from Weber. 60,000 BTU, all stainless, side burner, oh YESSSSSSS!!

 

Unfortunately, just like everything else I own, it needs detailing too.

 

Louisville is not that far at all. I'll give it another go and if I can't get it where I want, it will be "Junkman to the Rescue"!

 

Just let me know.

 

Junkman, you plan on being in LA at all tomorrow? Care to meet up at the warehouse? If not, I'll be there in the afternoon, and would love to connect and get your finish perfect.

 

My cell is 303-718-9480, and I'm about to sign off the computer tomorrow night. Please shoot me a call if we can meet up!

 

Thanks:D

 

I'll be at the warehouse tomorrow working on Roy's car most of the day. I'll be headed that way as soon as the morning traffic dies down.

[Z51L9889]

Got my shipment of APC and DS gallons today, along with a tub of APW, so I'm ready to continue honing my technique.

 

I've got to do a down and back run to Knoxville to pick up my son this weekend, so hopefully I will be ready to have another go at the car Sunday evening.

[JJ1o87]

All I know is that Adam will be there to make it right. Fear not you're Pacifica is in good hands! The PC can be very frustrating. I'm on my third or fourth use with it and I'm still not perfect.

[jjwvette]

If anyone can gets results,it's the Junkman.....take the offer

[Z51L9889]

Ok, ladies and gents, I'm trying again tonight and so far am not having luck with the revised technique. Here is a series of pictures to try and illustrate what I'm doing.

 

Here is the damage I am trying to correct. They are light random scratches about a few inches long. I have these in varying lengths and concentrations all over the car. The light has to hit them right to be visible, but they really show if you look at the right angle. For reference, the camera is showing about 1/3 of what I can see.

 

 

I tried FMP and then SHR on a white pad with no luck, so I moved on to an orange pad. Here is the amount of product I'm using and the area I am working:

 

 

I worked the panel until it looked like this (the product had mostly disappeared) using a very slow motion (about 20 seconds to go the length of the area):

 

 

I tried with moderate pressure, still allowing rotary motion, with no success. I then repeated with very heavy pressure. Here is the result:

 

 

Basically no change after four passes, two using the most aggressive combination. I can't imagine that these scratches are too deep to correct with a PC based on some of the pictures I've seen here on the forum.

 

This is about a 90% elimination of the damage I started with. The car looks 1000% better than when I started. I'm just stuck trying to get that last 10%.

 

For reference, here is the worst scratch on the car:

 

 

Hopefully these pictures will allow the experts to get a better idea of what I'm working with and allow them to guide me in the right direction.

 

Thanks again for all the advice.

[Rich]

Sounds to me that you're doing everything right. Some scratches just don't come out no matter what we do to them. I have several like yours that I can't correct and have learned to live with them. I hate them, but I accept them. The paint looks great on your car though, besides the scratches. And most likely,you're the only one who notices them. Don't get too worked up over it.

[Baron_Von_Awesome]

Ok, ladies and gents, I'm trying again tonight and so far am not having luck with the revised technique. Here is a series of pictures to try and illustrate what I'm doing.

 

Here is the damage I am trying to correct. They are light random scratches about a few inches long. I have these in varying lengths and concentrations all over the car. The light has to hit them right to be visible, but they really show if you look at the right angle. For reference, the camera is showing about 1/3 of what I can see.

 

 

 

I tried FMP and then SHR on a white pad with no luck, so I moved on to an orange pad. Here is the amount of product I'm using and the area I am working:

 

 

 

 

I worked the panel until it looked like this (the product had mostly disappeared) using a very slow motion (about 20 seconds to go the length of the area):

 

 

 

I tried with moderate pressure, still allowing rotary motion, with no success. I then repeated with very heavy pressure. Here is the result:

 

 

 

 

Basically no change after four passes, two using the most aggressive combination. I can't imagine that these scratches are too deep to correct with a PC based on some of the pictures I've seen here on the forum.

 

This is about a 90% elimination of the damage I started with. The car looks 1000% better than when I started. I'm just stuck trying to get that last 10%.

 

Hopefully these pictures will allow the experts to get a better idea of what I'm working with and allow them to guide me in the right direction.

 

Thanks again for all the advice.

 

 

From the looks of it...wet sanding or rotary compounding are your options there. They look a bit too deep for a Porter Cable to do anything about.

[Z51L9889]

Thanks for the input.

 

I went back out after I posted and I had some pretty good luck getting some of these scratches out of the hood with FMP and a white pad. I can accept what is left.

 

I've got a couple of trouble spots I'm going to hit one more time and then call it done and move on to waxing.