Claying - How did I mess this up?

[MitsukiGT]

So I watched the Junkman videos 3 times, felt very confident it what I was about to do.

 

My car was bought in February and had only been in touch less car washes until today.

 

This guys story is exactly like mine, except my paint isnt as bad.

http://www.adamsforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3997

 

First I used the 2 bucket process to clean the car and it looked pretty good afterwards. Nice and clean. I couldn't see hardly any swirls\spiders after cleaning it. Even under the lamp my paint looked surprisingly good.

 

Next I rinse it off and leave it wet. I get my new claybar out, rip it in half, flatten it out on my clean windshield. Then I have my detail spray read to go.

 

With the car wet I spray a ton of detail spray down on the area I'm working, I appeared to use as much as junkman. So I used allot of pressure as junkman suggests. Unless I'm blind the clay just wont get dirty. So I rub harder and harder tot he point the hood starts to push in as I move. Clay still wont get dirty. wtf? I am almost constantly spraying DS as I move the clay in the area i'm working.

 

As the guy in the other thread said, the scratched in the hood are in the exact same direction I worked the area. I even worked another area in a different direction to prove my point. The clay it definitely scratching up the paint, but why? Is it supposed to?

 

Now my picture doesn't show the scratched as good as the other guy's does in the link I posted, but trust me, it is pretty bad.

 

I did do the entire hood, but I just got too depressed and stopped. So the damage is just the hood right now. I am afraid to do the rest of the car now.

 

1. Is clay supposed to scratch the paint? I thought it just removed dirt.

2. Why is my clay not getting dirty? If it isn't showing dirt then how do I know when to rework it?

3. It seems like claying makes forces you to use the PC, thank god I bought that too. How the hell do you clay and not have to use the PC?

 

I'd like to try and finish the car tomorrow, but not sure how to continue. The clean clay is really stumping me.

 

As you can see in the picture the top right is in the the up\down direction relative tot he photo and the bottom left is in the left\right direction relative to the photo.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2009 by MitsukiGT

[Superdutytd]

Your picture is not showing up. But claying will leave some micromarring but shouldn't be scratching. It is possible you're not picking up many contaminants. Did you do the plastic bag test?

[Bill-V8V]

Seeing the picture should be a big help

[MitsukiGT]

Can you guys see the picture now? I just can't get this forum to upload a picture.

 

I should add this is a Pontiac G8 just as the guy int he other thread.

 

Thanks

[Bill-V8V]

Yup, I can see the picture now

 

On the middle right it looks like normal swirl marks from washing. Now on the bottom left there appears to be some scuff marks, is that where you were claying ?

[WheelMaker]

In my experience, using the Clay Bar does not require much pressure at all.

 

The idea is that the sideways motion of the clay will "shear" off the contaminants and little doobies that accumulate on the paint.

 

Using too much pressure or too little lubricant can sometimes cause the clay to break-up a bit and actually leave a film on the paint; I haven't experienced the 'filming' with Adam's clay, but I have seen it with other brands.

 

I usually keep a bucket filled part way with clean water and a little car wash soap to rinse the clay periodically. This doesn't really do much, as the contaminants mostly get stuck in the clay, but my idea here is that it will reduce the amount of larger particles, thus reducing the possibility of scratching other areas of the paint.

[lawson4450]

it looks like you may be going over to large of an area as you do it keep in like 1 foot increments and lots and lots of DS. Ive done this to my truck but usually because i let the clay stray to far off of the wet area and let it hit the dry spots and it would leave marks and small pieces of clay. Also i do it without any water on the vehicle at all just the DS

[Team Adam's]

Far be it from me to disagree with AJ, but yea... I've never needed much pressure to effectively claybar. The main problem you have here is you were LOOKING for contaminants... theres always a chance that not much had bonded to the paint. If you do a pass with clay and nothing comes off it doesn't necessarily mean you did it wrong it just means the panel wasn't that dirty.

 

Its kind of like going to the store and buying a razor unsure if you need to shave, you take the razor and rub it on your face... no hair comes off so you keep rubbing harder until you start bleeding. Maybe you didn't need to shave in the first place??

 

The easiest way to tell if you NEED to clay is to feel your paint. Place your hand inside of a plastic bag and gently rub over the surface. If it feels really rough, you need to clay. You may have been trying to fix a problem that wasn't even there to begin with. There has been tons of occasions where I've had a customers car and swore I'd need to use a whole claybar, but after doing the hood realized that the paint wasn't that bad. Personally if I were you I'd do a test section on the rear of the car, like the bumper or truck lid... those tend to be the worst areas.

 

On to fixing it... its just slight marring, not a big deal. Simply attack the area with some SHR and all of that will be gone lickity-split.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Dylan06SS

[Chris@Adams]

Wax hides some swirles and scratches so when you clay you clean all of the wax off, so you will see everything that was under the wax. So you have to be ready to us the pc to remove all of the imperfections that you just exposed .

[MitsukiGT]

Thanks for the responses.

 

1. The baggy test, I did feel like a bunch of small bumps. After claying the hood I still felt some, but much better than the un-clayed paint. So why did the clay not get dirty looking?

 

2. It should have been well lubricated. I used almost a full bottle of DS just on the hood, so that should tell you how much I used.

 

3. Should I tape off the hood scoops when using the PC?

 

4. I never waxed the car before unless the dealer did it, but that is doubtful as I literally showed up, picked a color and bought the car. They didn't have time to wax it.

 

I'll try to clay the rest of the car using just normal pressure and hope it doesn't do much more damage. I can do this in the garage now that I cleaned it.

[jjwvette]

it looks like you may be going over to large of an area as you do it keep in like 1 foot increments and lots and lots of DS. Ive done this to my truck but usually because i let the clay stray to far off of the wet area and let it hit the dry spots and it would leave marks and small pieces of clay. Also i do it without any water on the vehicle at all just the DS

 

[Superdutytd]

Thanks for the responses.

 

1. The baggy test, I did feel like a bunch of small bumps. After claying the hood I still felt some, but much better than the un-clayed paint. So why did the clay not get dirty looking?

 

2. It should have been well lubricated. I used almost a full bottle of DS just on the hood, so that should tell you how much I used.

 

3. Should I tape off the hood scoops when using the PC?

 

4. I never waxed the car before unless the dealer did it, but that is doubtful as I literally showed up, picked a color and bought the car. They didn't have time to wax it.

 

I'll try to clay the rest of the car using just normal pressure and hope it doesn't do much more damage. I can do this in the garage now that I cleaned it.

 

 

Thats way too much spray for just the hood, I did my entire truck with half a bottle.

[MitsukiGT]

I put my car in the garage, it is small so the nose is still in sunlight. I can't move around the car if the door is closed, so I must leave it open.

 

So I start with the side of gthe car which is very cool and surounding air is around 70. The baggy test revals that the paint is very bumpy. So I put a few sprays of DS and clay a real small area.

 

1. I have to use a TON of DS to keep the clay from sticking.

2. No matter the amount of DS I use (I tried small amonts and large and medium) I do have to use allot of pressure as junkman says or the bumps wont go away. I had to work one area about (1x1 section) almost an hour to get the bumps gone.

3. I still ened up using a full bottle of DS to do 2 doors. I have no idea how you can do a whole car on 1/2 a bottle without the clay sticking like crazy. I wasted half my clay because it would stick and then I would drop it

 

On the plus side I took my halogen lamp to the doors and dont see that I messed the paint up, but the hood looks good using the lamp as well (and you can see in the sunlight the hood is scratched up), so I have to pull it out to see it I did damage.

 

Simply after claying the door looks like a mirror.

 

I think there is no hope for me.

 

Thanks again for your time.

[Bill-V8V]

Where are you located ? Maybe we have a member in the area who could lend a hand ?

[MitsukiGT]

LOL, I feel like a complete moron that I can't get this apparently simple process to work.

 

I'm going to wait until the sun goes down and finish the car, I just want this over with so I can move on to the PC. I don't appear to be doing any damage the PC can't fix.

[Bill-V8V]

No need to feel like that, we have all been there at one time or another

 

 

 

Except me of course :lol:

[Junkman2008]

LOL, I feel like a complete moron that I can't get this apparently simple process to work.

 

I'm going to wait until the sun goes down and finish the car, I just want this over with so I can move on to the PC. I don't appear to be doing any damage the PC can't fix.

 

Your post right here sheds a lot of light on why you are having problems.

 

One, claying is NOT something you want to do in the sun if at all possible! Doing so will cause you to use a lot more detail spray than necessary. First off, the surface is way too hot. This explains why you used so much detail spray. You were constantly trying to get the surface of the car cool enough to keep the clay from sticking. Also, if the clay gets too hot, it is hard to use and it constantly is coming apart in bits and pieces. Claying is the one thing that you need to do on a surface that is cool to the touch. There is your first mistake. When I demo this at shows, I have to work in direct sunlight and this causes problems that I have to alleviate by using more detail spray than normal. Avoid doing this if at all possible.

 

Secondly, if your car's surface is not filthy (as my El Camino was in my videos), you are not going to see gobs of dirt in the clay. The dirt you may see will be very, very light to none showing at all if your paint's surface is not that bad. The only reason you look at the clay is to see whether or not it needs to be flipped. You must check the paint in order to see if the work that you are doing is actually making progress using the 'hand in the baggie' method.

 

I scrub the paint when I clay but I don't apply enough pressure to dent the panel! What you need to do in order to figure out how much pressure to apply is pick a spot on the car and clay that small area using a given amount of pressure. Next, check that area with the baggie test. Did it make a difference? If not apply more pressure. If so, apply that pressure until that spot is clean. Now you have an idea of how much pressure to use and how long to use that pressure in one given spot. Pretty simple huh!

 

Last of all, you talk about wanting to break out the PC and having a go at it. I know that you are in a hurry to get you car looking good but this can end up being your downfall. What's the hurry? Take your time and learn how to properly use the products in order to achieve the best results possible. By rushing through the process, the only thing you do is set yourself up for failure when your results are not what you expected. This I know personally from experience. I saw the rave reviews before I used products by another company and when I didn't get rave results, I was disappointed. Little did I know that not only was I not following the instructions but I was also not using the product correctly. I have been where you are. Luckily, I didn't do an area as big as a hood so I didn't waste a lot of time or product.

 

You need to follow the advice that I give a lot of people who are watching me do this in person. Expect my results on your car when you perfect your technique. That may not happen the first time you do it, that's why you work on a small section of the car until you do perfect your technique. I would pick half the hood so that you will have a before and after to look at. There's nothing like side by side results to motivate you on to the rest of the car.

 

I will say this about claying, it reveals how bad a shape your finish is in. Once you scrub all the junk off the clear coat, you will see stuff that you never saw before. Don't be alarmed, you can remove that stuff with the PC and SHR. You just need to be patient and take your time. I laugh when I see guys say that they clayed their entire car, removed all the swirls and scratches, and layed two coats of wax in four hours. There ain't no way in hell that they did all that and have their paint looking flawless. That car will still look like crap and I have the camera to prove it.

 

In closing, I say this is what you should do. Do only 1 half (or one quarter) of the hood. Once it is smooth as glass from claying, then move to the PC. Get that half or quarter of the hood swirl and scratch free and stop at the application of FMP. Once you have achieved the results that you want in that small area, apply what you have learned to another area. This is how you set yourself up for successful results. Don't rush through the process because your car will still look like crap when you're done. Take your time, learn the process and let us know what happens.

 

Just to give you an idea of where I'm at, I just spent 2 days going all over my car removing scratches. I hunted high and low and it took me two days to find them all and get them out using super bright halogens in my garage. My paint is nowhere as bad a shape as yours, but then I'm pretty anal about a freakin' scratch and it still took me 2 days. Normal people are not going to go to the extremes that I do because they have a life (or better yet, a family). As a self employed bachelor, I have a whole lot of time that I can waste and don't have to hear any lip about it.

 

There are 3 different types of light in this picture: my camera's flash, a 500 watt halogen and incandescent lighting. Not a swirl or scratch to be found.

 

Edited September 6, 2009 by Junkman2008

[Adam]

Hi, and what's your name? I'd like to walk you through this process on the phone if we can!

 

My cell is 303-718-9480. Let's talk, as certainly, what you are experiencing is strange.

 

Also, Junkman's clay process is one I use on a car that is seriously thrashed. Otherwise, on a car that's in fair shape, or newer, I just use the weight of the bar and my hand.

 

On a new vehicle, there is no need to use excessive pressure. Just follow the process with the PC and the Orange Pad, and Swirl & Haze Remover.

 

One more thing to realize: Your car may have enough factory orange peel (surface of the car looks similar to an orange peel) that no amount of claying will smooth it out.

 

That's a trick reserved for sand paper! At any rate, one pass with the Clay Bar should get your finish nice and smooth, so move on to the next step!

 

I'm here, so give me a ring.

 

Thanks, Adam:2thumbs:

[Natch02]

Now that is customer service!! Give Adam a call

[Junkman2008]

An offer from the man himself. You won't get that from any other company. I'd jump on that offer like a college freshmen on free beer!

[CWBowen]

My truck is silver and it is amazing how much the clay cleans the finish are tons of little rust spots all over and the clay pulls them right out, but I take my time and inspect my work and even go back over it if needed. At the rate i'm going it will take me 2 weeks to clay the entire truck, but thats fine as I'm waiting on my PC and machine polishes to arrive , so for now it's just clay a little and apply some buttery wax to protect.

 

So my advice is to take your time and get every step perfect before rushing on. The reward will be much greater in the end.

 

Not to try to take over the thread, but I have noticed my clay seems like it is drying out, if that is even possible. I started claying my truck the other day with about half of a brand new bar and got the bed looking great. Today I started doing the doors and it seemed that whenever i tried to fold the clay it would not smooth out like new. I use plenty of detail spray and even tried to massage the bar with several spray in my hands. I got the rest of the clay bar out that was still new and it was fine for two doors and a fender. I keep the container sealed tight and all product in my cool basement.

My truck is silver and it is amazing how much the clay cleans the finish

[MitsukiGT]

Thanks for all the help.

 

AJ, I'm not trying to hurry it, but I already spent 2 days washing\claying and the car isn't even half done with the clay process. I have to work Tuesday so I was hoping to have it finished before then. I have to drive it so all this work would be lost if I can't finish before then.

 

I have 2 500 watt halogens and using just the halogens I don't see the swirls as the picture I took. When in direct sunlight only do I see them. So it is making it hard to tell if I am doing damage while in the garage.

 

Adam, I just got home so I'll have to call you tomorrow if you will be available. I appreciate the help you guy and the Grrrr8 guys have been giving me.

[Junkman2008]

Thanks for all the help.

 

AJ, I'm not trying to hurry it, but I already spent 2 days washing\claying and the car isn't even half done with the clay process. I have to work Tuesday so I was hoping to have it finished before then. I have to drive it so all this work would be lost if I can't finish before then.

 

I have 2 500 watt halogens and using just the halogens I don't see the swirls as the picture I took. When in direct sunlight only do I see them. So it is making it hard to tell if I am doing damage while in the garage.

 

Adam, I just got home so I'll have to call you tomorrow if you will be available. I appreciate the help you guy and the Grrrr8 guys have been giving me.

 

First off, it took me 3 days to clay my Vette the first time I did it. Secondly, all the work you are doing will not be lost. Just because half the car is clayed and you drive it, does not mean that you have to clay the whole car all over again. It takes a while before the car will need to be clayed again. Just wash it first and pick up where you left off. That's why I tackle my car in sections. I may leave a section exposed for a week before getting back to it, however, it lives in a garage which helps out big time.

 

When using your halogens, turn one of them off and face the other slightly away from your work area to help see the swirls. Also, the overhead incandescent lights are capable of showing swirls too. Just look at the car from different angles, adjusting the lighting as you go.

 

Claying can produce some marring so don't be surprised by that. You aren't loosing your mind!

[Team Adam's]

I still ened up using a full bottle of DS to do 2 doors.

 

You are using WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much detail spray. The clay is never going to pick up a single containment if the surface is so saturated with spray that the clay can't work. I did my wifes SUV today and used less than half a bottle to complete the whole thing.

 

Hopefully you can connect with Adam and get this sorted out b/c I get the feeling theres something really missing here... some kind of disconnect.

[MitsukiGT]

Using all your advise I went back out and finished claying my car now that it is night time here in MI.

 

It took me about 3 more hours to finish the car. So I think total time using the method I last learned here it would take about 6-7 hours for me.

 

And I only used 1 more bottle of DS to finish the car.

 

Some observations\ lessons learned:

 

1. Roof and Trunk\axel back the clay did get dirty pretty fast.

2. Using very little DS made the crap come off faster. As you all said, but I had to see what "very little" was for "me".

3. Rear bumper and back of trunk had a bumch of rust like stuff and I mean a TON of it. The clay was so bad I decided to throw it out after I finished the trunk. It was almost completely rust colored with specks of rust. Odd that it was only here.

4. For some reason I scratched the crap out of the roof right above the windshield about a 6 inch section all across, but nowhere else. But nothing I cant use the PC to fix.

5. Clay seemed to pick stuff up better for about 30 seconds after I roll it over itself, then after that it seemed less effective even when appearing clean.

.......

6. The paint looks almost flawless and shiny only claying.

7. My Mom thought I was on crack for claying my car. It took me about 2 hours to convince her to come out and show her why. She was smiling when she did the baggy test and felt the door I just clayed next to the untouched door. Now she wants her car done ;-)

 

Questions:

 

I still have some crap on the paint, mainly the roof that wont come off, even with some APC. Can I just move on to the PC and see if that removes it? Even using my finger nail the stuff seems to be cemented on there.

 

Thanks for the tip AJ, and your videos. Without those videos I would have never attempted to correct my paint.

Edited September 7, 2009 by MitsukiGT

[MitsukiGT]

You are using WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much detail spray. The clay is never going to pick up a single containment if the surface is so saturated with spray that the clay can't work. I did my wifes SUV today and used less than half a bottle to complete the whole thing.

 

Hopefully you can connect with Adam and get this sorted out b/c I get the feeling theres something really missing here... some kind of disconnect.

 

LOL, well I think it was the product of 3 different things.

 

1. My car was hot.

2. I started with too much DS.

3. I was using way too much pressure.

 

Remember, this was my first attempt ever at this and I was going off of junkman doing the trunk of that taurus. He used a ton of DS on it and applied quit a bit of pressure. So I tried to copy that.

 

Also this was the car's first "touch" wash in 9 months.

 

Anyway, I went back at it tonight. By the time I was almost done I think I found the right amount of DS to use, which is very little.

 

I'll wake up bright and early and start with the SHR.

Edited September 7, 2009 by MitsukiGT