Swirls are Retuning...Looking Bad

[ChuckG]

About a month ago, we did a paint correction on my buddy's 2004 black GTO. The paint was in sorry shape (he bought it used) and it took us two days to get the job done. We first washed it, then clayed, and lastly did the SHR, FMP, and MSW. The PC took out about 95% of the swirls in just one pass. The car REALLY looked good and he was very happy with the results.

 

Yesterday I saw his car and the swirls are coming back in abundance. I mean it looked like we almost never did the correction. He told me he has washed the car three times since we worked on it using the two bucket method with the grit guard, Adam's car washing soap, and using the Adam's wash pad. He dried it using the great white towel. He didn't take it to the car wash.

 

What could be going on here? I'm kinda stumped. He sometimes uses a car cover but it hasn't been on in two weeks and the last time I saw the paint it still looked great after two washes.

[Doug123]

I think the idea is that if a car is washed, it will get some swirls, and a daily driver will never look as good as a 'garage queen'. If it is a garage queen, only taken out on sunny days on a weekend now and then, it may keep a really nice finish for quite a while.

 

I had to come to the place where it is 90-95% good and let it go at that. I know I will have to rework the finish in a couple of months or so - just the nature of the thing. Mine lives outside all the time near the entrance to a gated community, so it gets really dirty fast.

 

One other thing that might be tried since he is using a two bucket 2 grit guard system is to use 2 wash pads. One is your upper half of the car pad, and the other one is your lower part of the car pad. This isolates the more abrasive area to that lower pad and lessens the chance of the upper surface being scratched up by that grittier lower pad. I have gone to this as well myself in an effort to reduce the wash induced swirls. I use a black marker to draw a line across one edge, showing on both side, so show me the "lower pad" and isolate the lower half of the car wash to that pad.

 

The other thing is to monitor the color of the water in the rinse bucket - if it gets at all dirty, dump it and refill with fresh water even in mid wash.

 

I watch all of this every time I wash now. Trying to retrain myself in the 'new way' of washing the car.

[Michael415]

I think everyone has covered the techniques. The one thing that caught my eye was the paint was corrected with one pass. This would lead me to believe that either the the initial conditions the correction was done under failed to be conducive to seeing all the damage or that the car has a very soft finish. For your friends sake I hope its the first option. I know the first time I did damage correction it took many many many more passes than one.

And to add a bit more... if the finish is that soft a car cover could easily be the primary cause of swirlsville to return.

[Chris@Adams]

Are you looking at the paint in the same lighting, both times?

[Junkman2008]

Here's a question for you: Is your paint more prone to swirls after a paint correction?

 

Thanks everyone.

 

You would want to answer YES to that question. But here's the truth. Once you get the paint corrected, the damage you create IS MUCH EASIER TO SEE afterward! It is not that your paint is easier to damage, it just shows up more noticeable against your nicely corrected finish.

 

Now as to your initial post. You DID NOT remove as much damage as you thought you did the first time. If that paint was as bad as you say it was, then it is going to take quite a few passes with the PC to get rid of all that damage. The PC IS NOT powerful enough to get rid of all that damage in one pass. Its lack of power is what makes it so safe. You can't have both. The more powerful a polisher is, the less safe it is. They have a negative coefficient in relationship (one goes up, the other goes down).

 

For sure! It is AWESOME. It allows you to get an amazing level of foam and suds on the car. You let it sit and it does the job of lifting off the dirt. If you go right to washing with a pad, you take the risk of scratching/swirling. With the suds/foam and no contact, it allows the soap to lift the dirt off the paint. I then rinse off the car and I would say a good 90% of any contaminents is gone. Then I go to the two bucket method.

 

Usually in the order of:

- Rinse down car throughly

- Put suds on car using foam fun (not too foamy)

- Let sit while I agitate the wheels with APC and other areas

- Rinse

- Put Heavy foam using foam gun

- Let sit for 5 minutes

- Rinse

- Two-Bucket method

 

If you have a power washer, look towards a foam cannon too!

 

There's a slight flaw in your foam gun technique.

 

The reason you use a foam gun in the first place is to lubricate and raise the dirt that is matted to the clear coat. You DO NOT want to rinse that off, you want to use it along with your two bucket wash. Thus, when you foam an area, you allow it to sit a few minutes in order to lubricate and raise that dirt and THEN you perform a 2 bucket wash on that area.

[Doug123]

Maybe putting the cover on a dirty car? Or using the wash pad too long before a rinsing and rubbing on the grit guard in the rinse bucket? (also wring it out after rinse bucket process - NOT over the rinse bucket).

 

I only do a couple of wipes per wash pad side with mine, assuming (I live near the beach) that the pad is getting really gritty fast. You can see the pad get dirty if the car is the least bit dirty - if you can see the pad is discolored a bit, turn it over to the clean side and do a couple of swipes with that one and then go to the rinse bucket.

 

Has he been washing his wash pad out after every car wash session? Is he storing it somewhere where it is getting dirty from the garage floor, dusty, wind, anything?

 

Is he really pressing hard into the finish with the wash pad, and doing this in a circular motion?

 

Is he rinsing the car down first well with fresh water before proceeding with the wash?

 

Any other ideas, folks?

[Chewy]

Make sure the pad's VERY foamy and get a foaming gun if and/or when they come available again. He may be unknowingly pressing too hard on the finish.

 

Make sure he's spraying DS when he dries as well.

 

He's cleaned all of his MF ONLY with MF and not with other items?

 

Scratches are going to happen but they won't be horrible.

 

Chris

[ChuckG]

WOW guys, lots of great info here! I want you all to know it is appreciated.

 

Thinking back over the correction, I'm starting to think that maybe we didn't get 95% of the swirls out. We did the correction in my driveway on days that didn't have bright sunlight. When I saw the car it was in bright sunlight. Yesterday he stopped by and the day was hazy. I saw no scratches. Interesting. You know those pics of black paint that all you see are swirls? That's what his car was like before the correction.

 

He read this thread and appreciated all the replies. He said he always uses a clean wash pad and a clean great white towel to dry it. But then he said this all made sense. He said he was rubbing too hard.

 

He doesn't have a foam gun and either do I for that matter. Does this really help?

 

Anyway we're going to try the correction thing in about a month. He'll be out of town and when he gets back we'll try this again. But let me say that even though his paint has swirls, it still looks WAY better than it did. Before it was a mess.

 

Here's a question for you: Is your paint more prone to swirls after a paint correction?

 

Thanks everyone.

[XQIZT]

Before actually washing, is he soaking down the car with just water and blasting away the big chunks of dirt, etc.? Is he then foaming it in some way and letting it sit?? If he just goes straight to washing with the pad, he's dragging all the dirt across the surface as he washes.

 

How is he using the towel? I spray the surface with DS, open the towel, lay it on the surface and only pull by the corners...ZERO hand pressure.

 

Also, where does the car sit? Outside all the time? Garaged? Could be some environmental factors going on too.

[Doug123]

Here's a question for you: Is your paint more prone to swirls after a paint correction?

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Not that I know of. But when they come you will notice them more (after seeing it unswirled! )

[IMADreamer]

I'm to the point where I think it's impossible to not have the car swirled up if your hand washing. I made a thread a month or so ago about this and I'm doing all the right technique with the right tools. I've just decided I'm not going to hand wash the car unless I'm going to wax it. It doesn't look nearly as good when done with a power washer but atleast I'm not scratching the heck out of it every week when I wash.

[Laguna]

He doesn't have a foam gun and either do I for that matter. Does this really help?

 

For sure! It is AWESOME. It allows you to get an amazing level of foam and suds on the car. You let it sit and it does the job of lifting off the dirt. If you go right to washing with a pad, you take the risk of scratching/swirling. With the suds/foam and no contact, it allows the soap to lift the dirt off the paint. I then rinse off the car and I would say a good 90% of any contaminents is gone. Then I go to the two bucket method.

 

Usually in the order of:

- Rinse down car throughly

- Put suds on car using foam fun (not too foamy)

- Let sit while I agitate the wheels with APC and other areas

- Rinse

- Put Heavy foam using foam gun

- Let sit for 5 minutes

- Rinse

- Two-Bucket method

 

If you have a power washer, look towards a foam cannon too!