MAYBEN Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Here's the skinny: I have hot water baseboard heating with a gas boiler/furnace whatever they're called, and a gas hot water heater.. the water supply being feed into the boiler is hot water from the water heater.. a few people I've talked to said they've never heard of it being set up that way and it sound like a waste.. My question is, should I have the plumbing fixed so that the supply for the boiler is regular cold water? I need to replace my hot water heater ASAP since its from 1991, doesn't work that great, and you can hear sounds almost as if its boiling inside, but doesn't sound good.. you're help is appreciated! side note: anyone have any experience with having HD install their hot water heater? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveVY Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have not had hot water baseboard heat but have had hot water radiant floor heat that worked off a boiler. As I understand from plumbing friends (though building codes may be different in your area) the water in your heating system should be recirculated and as long as there are not any leaks in the heating system your fresh water will never enter the heating system. There should be a check valve between your heating system and your fresh water pipe to prevent water from the heating system from entering your fresh water. Most heating systems that I am familiar with (radiant systems) run a mixture of antifreeze/chemicals in the water to prevent any damage from freezing and also prevent corrosion from occurring in the system, hence the need for the check valve as we don't want those chemicals in our household drinking water. You had the concern of the water entering the boiler system coming from the hot water pipe - since the boiler system should be recirculating you should almost never have fresh water enter your system, unless you had a leak. IMHO this isn't worth changing pipes around. And if you do have the pipes changed you will probably want to have the check valve checked to be sure it is functioning properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFairbanks Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have no experience with a boiler system being that I don't have one. What little I do know Dave is right that it is a sealed recirculating system. I get the sense that Sardian on here is a plumber. He may know more about boilers. As far as hot water heaters go they are a piece of cake to install. If your water heater is snapping and popping it is a sign that it is on it's way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChargerMatt Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Nevermind, I'm an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golf for Life Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 We have a baseboard hot water system and love it. It is an older system that has a cold water feed. If make-up water is needed. Gas water heater is also fed with city cold water and is in no way connected to the boiler. I think that modern systems are a closed loop and uses a Etheline glycol mixture. I would think that you would like to keep them segregated. I'm not a plumber but a hydraulics engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 I guess its not much to worry about as far as swapping the plumbing.. as far as the hot water heater is concerned, I may look at PSE&G, they install AO Smith and have high efficiency gas available, I wonder what the extra expense is and if its worth it, I considered going tankless, but dont have the ~$2K to shell out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianT Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Nick, the only thing I would be worried about is that for some reason the broiler back feeds the boiler water into the water heater. The system should never really need more water, because it would in a perfect world mean there is a leak somewhere. I have no idea the workmanship that HD has. I do my own work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 I don't believe there is a back feed into the water heater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckster Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 :worth: This is not the way to do it but if it works keep it that way until you do a replacement, no hazard or damage. The water supply line is to keep the boiler filled and if there are no leaks then the water supply coming from the water heater should rarely be used...... I assume this is a closed/sealed system. Tankless water heaters are costly and you must install the correct model for the use application...... Venting must also be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Just talked to PSE&G, they gave me the following prices on these 40gal gas models which include removal and installation.. seem a little high.. gcvt-40 $1,199 xgv-40 $1,399 xvr-40 $1,199 gvr-40 $999 gcv-40 $899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianT Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 That is kinda high. The "back feed" I'm talking bout is that for some reason the boiler builds too much pressure, it will push water out of the boiler and into your hot water heater and pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFairbanks Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 as far as the hot water heater is concerned, I may look at PSE&G, they install AO Smith and have high efficiency gas available, I wonder what the extra expense is and if its worth it, I considered going tankless, but dont have the ~$2K to shell out.. Water heaters IMHO are far easier than what you did yesterday with fishing wires. A few things to remember are di electric union, two. I'am assuming you have copper water lines that supply the water heater. Aluminum tape to cover joints in venting. Some don't do this, it is just something I do. Quarter inch slope per foot on the venting. Some gas leak detector. An expansion tank. And a good opportunity to put in a ball shut off valve right at the water heater if you don't already have one. That way next time you don't have to kill the water to the whole house. An expansion tank. You will have to measure the pressure in your house. It just attaches to an outside hose bib. This is easily done with a cheap tool that you can get at Home Depot and then put air into the tank to match the pressure in your house. And if you have questions about soldering pipe, I can help you there to. It is a lot easier than people think. 3/4 in. Galvanized Steel and Brass FPT x Sweat Dielectric Union-FSU LFDU-34 at The Home Depot Nashua Tape322 1-57/64 in. x 150 ft. Aluminum Foil Tape-3220020500 at The Home Depot Better Bubble 8 oz. Gas Leak Detector-65554 at The Home Depot Steel Thermal Expansion Tank-DET 12 at The Home Depot 3/4 in. Plastic Water Pressure Test Gauge-DP IWTG at The Home Depot All those little gadgets you may think of having someone do it. But I look at as I will have it for next time. It may be more than you feel like doing however, and I understand that. Those tankless are expensive because they require special vent pipe. It gets pricey real quick. They are nice however. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveVY Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 That is kinda high. The "back feed" I'm talking bout is that for some reason the boiler builds too much pressure, it will push water out of the boiler and into your hot water heater and pipes. This concern for back feed is why the building codes require a check valve between the heating system and the water system (or at least they did at the house when I had a boiler). This check valve only allows water to flow in one direction. The heating system also has to have its own pressure relief valve (similar to what a tank hot water heater has). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckster Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I suggest calling a local NJ licensed plumber to give you a price. Another thing you can do is to install a Boiler Mate water heater..... Takes hot water from your boiler to heat the domestic hot water, basically giving you FREE hot water during the heating season and these work well all year long, most experienced plumbers install these in their homes. PSEG uses local plumbers to do installs so check around locally..... Ask a neighbor or your local plumbing supply house for a reference. Bradford White is a good brand to consider and you can go to their website and see what they have to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazinSS934 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Where in jersey r u located? I am from long island I wouldn't mind driving to dirty jerz to help a brother firefighter out. You should have the feed valve piped into the return side of your boiler with a back flow preventer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawson4450 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 blazin he is in north jersey I believe not that far from you. also I used Scott Becker plumbing but they are in somerville nj by me firefighter in somerville he did my water heater for around 900 installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hey Sal, I am in Hawthorne (near Wayne, Glen Rock, Ridgewood, Wyckoff) I've been debating hiring a plumber to do it so that the work is warrantied.. I'll have to try and go down there with the camera so I can take a pic of the setup.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFairbanks Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 blazin he is in north jersey I believe not that far from you. also I used Scott Becker plumbing but they are in somerville nj by me firefighter in somerville he did my water heater for around 900 installed. That is quite the markup if you ask me, considering. Plumbing - Water Heaters - Residential - Energy Star - Gas at The Home Depot The scariest home repair project that I have ever done was upgrading my moms electrical from 60 amp service to 125 amp. Where the power comes in from the pole to the house. Had to replace panel where electric company reads meter as well as panel inside the house. It wasn't the house I grew up in. Anyhow she had these what are called stab lok circuit breakers. If you tried to shut one off they would spark in the box. The box was like a rats nest of wires. Litterally. Way chucked full of a mess. She had hired someone to do it and he had drug it out. I found out about it after the fact. I had one shot to do it right. She had one inspection left to get it done or would have to pull another permit. Mom was a nervous wreck, with me tinkering with live boxes. I must admit at times I was nervous too. There was no main shut off without pulling the sealed meter outside. I ripped out everything that the other guy had done and started from scratch. Sometimes it is just easier that way. I ended buying the NEC book (national electrical code). It is like a 100 bucks, and reads like a college advanced science book IMHO. Inspector came out and looked things over and gave her the green light. This is what they look like. I thought these were out of use a long time ago. Apparently not. Federal Pacific Electric FPE Circuit Breakers and Electrical Panels Stab-Lok Testing Update J Aronstein Stablok Stab Lok Test Results as of May 2007 - see the PDF file cited here RECALL - FEDERAL PACIFIC BREAKER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianT Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 This concern for back feed is why the building codes require a check valve between the heating system and the water system (or at least they did at the house when I had a boiler). This check valve only allows water to flow in one direction. The heating system also has to have its own pressure relief valve (similar to what a tank hot water heater has). I completely agree! It just struck me as odd that the fill was coming from the hot water side not the cold and wanted to make sure that there is nothing else that would be considered "odd". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDude Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 In the few systems that I have seen in the past the feed for the boiler has been cold water not hot water from the water heater. A.O. Smith is a good brand they are one of the world's largest water heater manufactures. I know their State Water Heater and American Water Heater lines are made here in the State of Tennessee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm not stuck on a brand, but I just so happened to watch the episode of How It's Made that showcased the AO Smith Water Heaters, lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDude Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm not stuck on a brand, but I just so happened to watch the episode of How It's Made that showcased the AO Smith Water Heaters, lol.. They filmed part of that show the next city over from me (AO Smith). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 thats pretty cool.. I like the way they built the ones they showed, but those are probably much more $$ lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGenCoupe Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I read the title of this thread and thought....MAYBEN clogged the toilet again. His wife is going to kill him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazinSS934 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Mayben Another option for you is a indirect hot water heater. It is a big copper coil inside of a tank. It takes boiler water amd uses it to heat the domestic water. It works like an additional zone of heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.