nooner

Is this what the wax should look like when you put it on? I followed exatly as Adam's video showed. I just never waxed before, so I don't know what to look for so I want to make sure I am doing it right now before I move on. And then I just wait 20 mins and wipe it off? Can I use too much pressure and end up wiping off the wax?

Well, apparently I will have to wax it again, but I had to take it out of my driveway and flip it around so I can start on the other side and do the door and fender. Its only fitting that I wax it twice since I polished the whole thing twice . I will just tell people the first time was for practice Here are my 'after" pics from the side and top that I did. I had to use my "cheaper" camera, as my camera with the focus and the macro settings is charging right now. I think next time I will wait for noon as the sun is glared in some pics. AHHHHH! look how dirty my windows are (especially the back). I forgot about those ^ you can see the swirls around the pin stripe if you look hard enough... not so much the swirls, but the distortion of light from them ^ I think I might enter with this one ^ Better make it clear that I didn't attempt to clean the windows with any Adams product yet.... ^ That is the hood ^ What would you suggest as far as getting the swirls out around my pinstrip that goes the whole length of the car, tape is too wide (the stripe is only 2-3mm) and tape is about 2". Would it be bad for the pad if I went over the tape as I buffed? I just tried to eyeball and not get too close to it but when I was done I saw how I didn't touch any of the swirls, I might have to do it by hand. Or would you just suggest I leave it alone or maybe try to glaze them over? It is cool to see a before and after though, all I have to do is look at all the swirls near the stripe and how nice it looks under it! I don't think I will make September's photo contest, but I will try to enter into October's. Thanks again for all the help.

I just saw Adam's video of it. He says waxing is just to get a shine so you just spread it and he moved slightly faster than I did, he used MUCH more than I did but, the video cut out, so I don't know how long he went over it. I know wax is for shine, but I thought MSW is more of a sealer and it had to be worked over a bit as it is more for pretection and not shine.

Can you tell I have never waxed before either? lol The bottle says use 3opm, whcih I did, and I didn't use any pressure (I assume that is what you mean by "working it") but I moved a bit faster than with the polish and as when I polish and went over the grid 2-3 times like a polish, and I didn't use any DS primer. Is that wrong?

I started MSW today and I was even getting gray pad dusting.... "after" pics soon to follow.

You are also the man! lol What I am saying is that I think since I screwed up with too much product, that might have "cut" some off the pad in dust form and now that I have cleaned all the product off, it still dust, I think the dust now is form the pad, thought I don't mind this dust at all since it blows right off. The other dust was caused by caked on product and had some product on it and I couldn't blow it off or even wipe it off, I had to scratch it off with my fingernail (which takes forever if you have 100+ particles) or put on a white pad and some FMP and buff it off. The pics don't do it justice, it is faded white instead of orange in the center and almost green looking, it looks diseased.

Alright cool thanks.

I gave that a try, a freshly washed and dried pad with only DS n it, and still dust. That explains those pics with so much foam missing from the hexagons. If it was product the pad would look more intact and less diseased.

That is kind of why I made this thread, I thought it was a lot, but I wanted to see if others have that much. Sounds like mixed results so far.

I think it is like an MF towel, once you break the structural integrity, it starts to unraval like a chain reaction, its pretty bad and only getting worse the more I try to use it. If it wore down evenly, that would be one thing, but since it is un even, I think it will just make things worse, now the polishing particles have something to grab on if that makes and sense.

Yea, I will have to chalk that up to a lessons learned. I need to go buy a new pad now..... and some more detail spray and some more SHR. I know Adam's customer service is great, but I doubt even they will replace my pad caused by my inexperience and screw-ups. I think the imbalance caused it alot too, as the white pad is very clean with nothing caked on it, yet it dust a bit too. I might need a new white one. I only worked on it for 1 hour today, but for some reason, it just seemed to click with me today. I was going over grids I did yesterday (which still look like crap) that I spent 20 mins on. I took 10 mins today and really knocked out those spots nice using MUCH MUCH less product. I all of a sudden know what working the product means and I was doing an awesome job on my car today. In part it was from all your help so thanks for that (especially MitsukiGT, that video he made just helped me see how to polish from another angle and I saw something I didn't see in Junkmans videos and that post from Junkman in the PC help/harm thread). But it is also from not giving up and doing a bunch of research too. I learned something else. I think I heard you say it once now that I think about it. You are more about getting out the swirls thatn you are worried about scratches. I would rather have a scratch than no paint at all (from obsessing over sratches and going through the clear. The PC can get the swirls out in a pass (one pass being about a 10min run over a grid) or two (if done correctly), but some scrathes can take 7-8 passes. Granted you probly have about 250 passes with SHR untill you start going through the 75% mark of the clear coat (the mark I have heard people say that is when your UV protections is gone and the sun will start to beat up on your paint). From now on I am going to just get all the swirls out and after 1-3 years worth of detailing every 6-12 months and getting those swirls out, that scratch will in time be taken out, instead of wasting all of that clear coat just to revome a little scratch. The swirl removal process at least minimizes the scratch for the time being. I also asked Junkman the stupid question about removing orange peel after I watched his videos when I first found out about detailing. Now I know it is way too expensive and not really worth it, especially on a daily driver. But I got to thinking, just like the scrathes...... in 10-15 years, all of that polishing will remove enough clear coat and the orange peel with it and my car will only look better with time! That is a reassuring thought.... though I might need a pro to second weather that is true or not. Thank again for all of your help.

It took me about 5 mins to clean with some water and my hand just rubbing off all the caked on dry stuff. Then put it in a bucket or go outside and give it a whirle on 6 opm for 5 secs and it should get it 95% dry. The rest of the time let it airdry. If you wanted to speed it up you could use a blow dryer, but be very carefull to not let it get too hot, some blow dryers have a cool setting. Or an air compresser or hang it in front of a fan or something if you need to speed u pthe drying time. But from the sounds of all the rain you got plenty of time to just air dry it. Once it is dry then you can put it in a sandwhich bag, but just don't zip it shut, to allow any moisture to be able to escape.

here are some pics of my orange pad, I wahsed it in some water and got all of it off with my hand, then spun it dry on 6 in a bucket (works great) and then let it airdry over night. I find it odd that though it was unbalanced, the center 5-6 hexagons took the most damage. you can see the 1 mm that is missing along the edge there, I am sure you can imagin how many dust particles that would make up that much foam.

Thanks lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SDC3oYRaG8&feature=channel_page about 7:38-7:51 But when I saw Junkman's video he says they are very hard to find they are like $10 or something. I think they are special, not just your everyday metal washer. It looks like 2 metal washers between a cork or something that is made to "give" a bit. I don't think I crushed it either, if I did, it should crush uniformly I would think since the backing plate is flat and the nut it goes against is flat. But to answer my quesiton, it does look unbalanced? Or is that a normal amount of wobble?

Here is a video of me showing how unbalanced my PC is. I think the problem is a bad washer. The bottom seems to be somewhat "crushed" and therefore causing an imbalance. The washer next to a normal rubber washing standing on a table. And here is a video http://s573.photobucket.com/albums/ss175/nooner37/?action=view&current=PC1.flv I think I have to talk with customer service about this... but I wanted to make sure this was a problem first.

First of all, sorry if I sound condesending like I am talking down, I am just trying to epxplain things to make it more clear as I have an obvious confusing in what certain terms mean. I think of ocsillation as meaning something goes back and forth, like a sine wave or a spring or a pendulum, You all have much more experience than I do detailing, I don't want to sound like a "know it all" but that is how it was taught to me. I know a lot more about physics than I do detailing. I thought OPM was orbits per minute. You can take the pad and backing plate off and watch it orbit around an impaginary axis as if the sun was imaginary and the earth is where nut that the plate goes into. Orbiting is the "secret" to the daul action that prevents you from burning the paint (that and the clutch). edit: as I found out later, it is the off centered orbit, or the oscilation that is the secret. If you hold on to the pad with your hand and don't let it rotate, it will still orbit at 5opm or whatever you set it at. Then you let go and the pad is rotating around a central axis (the nut), which is illustrated with your black line you put on the backing plate, and that central axis oribts around an immaginary central axis, hence the name "orbital buffer" on some dual action polishers. To expalin how it could oscillate, think of a helicopter blades or a helicopter sitting on the ground spinning. When it gets unbalanced it bounces up and down and can cause the helicopter to viberate really bad. That is an example of oscillation. I thought oscilation was one of the ways it kept he heat down by releiving presure a bit when it oscilates, turns out I am wrong. Edit: Now I see that there really is no central axis that is oribts around, but more of an off centered axis which is counterweighted, and that is where the oscillation comes from. Never mind, I understand it. Its like a rotary wenkel engine in terms of oscillation. I just found out my problem! I just checked my washer and it is slightly crushed creating an imbalacne in the spining and causing it to oscilate/wobble. When I first got it I spun it and it oscilated/wobbled, but I thought it was supposed to do that and the backing plate had weights built in it do make it off balance. Now that you are telling me it is not supposed to oscilate/wobble, I checked into it and it is the one side of the washer is slightly crushed. It looks like this special washer is two metal washers with a ceramic plate or something in between them, and the ceramic plate was slightly cruhsed on one side. This explaines why it vibrated so much! I just thought I ws a wimp and muscled through it, thinking you guys did too. I gues that should have tipped me off when it was viberating so bad What are the chances of the one guy that has a different thinking of oscillation actually gets a broken washer that allows that kind of oscillation that he is familiar with. I thought it was weird when I saw it spin unbalanced, but the I remembered the word oscillation and thought there was a built in weight or somehting and it was supposed to oscillate like that. To clear up confusion we will call this type of oscillation, a wobble. I will put up a video in a different post to show you how much the backing plate on mypc wobbles and if it is a normal amount of wobble or not. I assume it should have no wobble and be conpletely balanced. Maybe someone with a good pc can spin the backing plate and show me how balanced it is so I can determine if mine is good or not. I will have to call up customer service and check on this. Thanks for that help. That really explains a lot like the violent viberation and the pad wearing funny and dusting everywhere. I just wish it didn't take me 16 hours into the job to find this out! yea, sorry my english(grammar and spelling) sucks. That is why my post have about 7-8 edits on them avg. lol I think in the end there you answered my question. It is the rotating that does the cutting work, not so much the pressure. So you wouldn't want to go up to 6 and use so much pressure that it rotates as fast as 5, the reason you go up to 6 is to use 9-14lbs of pressure and get higher revs per second. To get revs per second I just use the black line and it seems like your videos you avg about 2 revs per second on 5 OPMs and 3-4 on 6 OPMs. sorry about that, I ment rev as in revolutions (the black line spinning), thats a typo I didn't catch. Thanks, that is good to know, that is kind of stuff I was hoping to hear by starting this thread. As you can see, I know how the PC works, the pricipals of it. I just wanted to know how it effects the paint which you have answered. Thank you

Yea, that is kind of what I thought, the product was caked on their pretty bad, so I washed it off and I am going to try again this time using much less and working it longer. And the "dusting" usually happens real bad on 6 and a little bit on 5 opm, but I kind of need it that high to get anywhere right? Or should I use more pressure to slow it down from going that fast then?

I do have it.... but I do mean the pad dust. I just cleane dmy pad, I have to take a pic of it, you can deffinatley see where the dust came from. The small dust blows or wipes right off, but the larger dust particles have product on it... and that stick to the surface and is real annoying!

My damage may not be as bad as the Taurus, but the Taurus had a soft clear coat.... But I watched your videos, and they show the product breaking down a bit better than Junkmans. I think I understand it bit better, thanks. Now I just wish I could find out why I am getting so much orange dust everywhere. I am worried I am doing something wrong that is causing the dust and it is scratching up my paint. I have spent about 14 hours so far in 2 days, and I made the worst mistake earlier. I was doina side panel, which suck, becuase now you have to hold up the PC and there are way more curves. So I decided to try the handle, I thought it might make it easier to hold on the sided. That was the most painful 2 mins of my right hands life! And if that wasn't bad enough, near the end, I tried to gorila grip it to dampen the viberation in my hand and that viberated my whole arm and probly my brain a bit (which must not have been working correctly because I decided to do this in the first place) and that lasted a whole 10 secs before I had to release the gorilla grip to an even more amplified pain in my fingers to which point I turned off the PC and couldnt move my hand for a good 5 mins So at least I can say I learned something today. As far as time goes... In a way I have all the time in the world. But the more time I take the more I am "overstaying my welcome" in a friends garage. That is why I am doing at least 6 hours a day but trying to get in 8-10 so I can get it done as quickly as possible calender wise, not work time wise. But on that note I don't want to waste my time, and if it takes me 3-4 passes on 5 with orange and SHR, would it be smarter to just go 2 passes on a 6? I don't know if you could tell how deep those scratches are on my trunk pics, but they took me 4 passes on 5 and then I ramped it up and did 3 more on 6 and they still are present to where there look like a little dent or a bending light, more than they do a scratch, I think 2 more passes on 6 would do the trick. Do you think you could tell if that means I have a hard clear coat from that info?

And as far as a clear coat. I thought I heard Junkman say if the slow cut process works and you have a soft clear coat, then you can work your whole car on a 5 with SHR and orange pad with 9-14 lbs of pressure. If you had a hard clear coat, what would you use, a orange SHR 6 and 25lbs of pressure? Or would you move up to yellow and use 5 and 9-14 lbs.

First of all I will explain what I mean by harm your paint. I mean cause swirls and undo the very job you are trying to do, I saw Junkmans paint abuse thread so I know that is not a problem. I have a some basic questions on how exactly the PC does. I know it orbits (like the earth around the sun), revolves/rotates/spins, and oscilates (bumps up and down), but , why... how does that help/hurt my paint? I know that basically polishes your clear coat so that the whole thing is level and the scratches are gone. Its just like sanding something.... just on a very very minor scale. That is my understanding of it anyway. If I put the PC on 1, the weight of the PC is enough to bog it down so I need to actually lift weight off of the pc to allow it to revolve. So are the point of the settings, the more pressure you put, the more "cutting" you will do to your car as long as it is rotating? But the problem is the more pressure you put, the higher the setting you will need it on so that it can stil rotate. Does 2vers per second sound like a good rate at which it should rotate at? And if I need more of less of a cut I change the setting so that I can put down more or less pressure to keep that revolutions rate? Would you ever put it up to 6 and use very little pressure so that it revolved 3-4 time a second? Would that harm your paint? Does the product break down due to the pressure you are using or is it more due to the revolutions. It seems if I give it high revs the product seems to get more wet looking and milky and it never really works in, but the second I put pressure and slow it to 1-2 revs per second the product looks dry and almost disapears like i am wiping it off as I go and it just leaves a film behind it. I think possibly understanding what I am doing will help me in doing it better. Thanks for your time.

Adam...... as in Adam's products Adam? or some other guy? What is the user name?

I just thought of something that might help.... The wax can hid some of the micro-swirls if they are light. It is kind of a cheat, but if you are the only one that knows the swrils are there and no one can see it untill your wax starts to wear off, it might be an option to get you by for now. Sorry for those that this might be detailing blasphemy lol. That is what I am going to do, I think I bit off a bit more than I can chew, and I am man enough to admit it. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Yea, its a 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe if that helps anyone. I think I need to just find a local guy and watch him. It is too hard to expain in words and even too hard to watch someone's video and do it. I think I am just going to keep on truckin since I can't use this garage for more than a few days and do the best I can. Then sometime down the road, I will try to find a detail workshop or someonw who would let me watch them do it in person and maybe try it with them critiqing me. Thanks for all the help.

Thanks. Oh I understand what you mean now. I used GOO gone or any bug and tar remover to get all the sticky off. All that was left behind ot buff was scratches and ghost, but no residue. I think I scared everyone off with the post length lol. I am starting to think that maybe I have a hard clear coat? I wish I knew, but since I don't know what breaking down looks like, I can't do the proper slow cut so I can't find out if it is hard or soft. Guess its back to work