Flex Questions for those who don't know.

[Dr Jkel]

I am starting this thread because of the new Flex that Adam is offering. I like most probably have many questions on the Flex.

 

So post away your questions, I feel confident that the more knowledganble among us will help the rest of us out.

 

My questions.

 

With the PC you use 9 to 14 lbs of pressure, how much do you use with the flex?

 

On inside corners/curves of body panels is using the edge ok on the flex?

 

How fast do you move the flex?

 

The product can be worked longer, so how long do you work the product. The PC you work it till it looks like vaseline almost. How do you tell with the flex?

 

Since it has more cut how many passes should you normally do in each stage with the flex?

 

Thanks,

 

John

[Team Adam's]

Based on that last PM I'm suspecting more and more a lot of the stuff you're fighting is under that new clear coat... which of corse if you can't get to it you can't fix it.

 

Give the flex a shot when you get it and go from there I guess.

[rwisejr]

Ok that is good to know, or bad depending on how you look at it.

 

I hit one areas about 6" x6" 5 different times with the yellow pad on the PC with SHR on 2 seperate days and had no change at all on a setting of 4. I was beginning to think I was a failure LOL.

 

I make it sound realy worse than it is. I have about 8 little areas so far on the hood, rear deck lids and quarter panel area so far. Not stick out like a sore thumb areas but I notice them. The ones on the flat horizontal areas are the worst becasue they show up.

 

One good thing about this is that by the time I get this corrected I will definitely have learned a thing or two, which is not a bad thing I guess, glass half full type of thing.

 

 

Well one thing you just brought to light is that you used speed 4 . Try stepping it up to 5 or 6 as those are the cutting speeds on the pc. But even at 4 you should have had some change. But now that adam's has the new SSR I would give that a try as it is a more aggressive polish.

[Dr Jkel]

If the focus pads aren't making a a change in those marks . I'm with Dylan as it cleary sounds like they have been cleared over .You should have seen some sort of improvement .With what you have done so far . The flex will not fair any better if this is the case.

 

 

Ok that is good to know, or bad depending on how you look at it.

 

I hit one areas about 6" x6" 5 different times with the yellow pad on the PC with SHR on 2 seperate days and had no change at all on a setting of 4. I was beginning to think I was a failure LOL.

 

I make it sound realy worse than it is. I have about 8 little areas so far on the hood, rear deck lids and quarter panel area so far. Not stick out like a sore thumb areas but I notice them. The ones on the flat horizontal areas are the worst becasue they show up.

 

One good thing about this is that by the time I get this corrected I will definitely have learned a thing or two, which is not a bad thing I guess, glass half full type of thing.

[rwisejr]

If the focus pads aren't making a a change in those marks . I'm with Dylan as it cleary sounds like they have been cleared over .You should have seen some sort of improvement .With what you have done so far . The flex will not fair any better if this is the case.

[Chewy]

He had the car sanded and reshot with clear to get rid of orange peel.... I suspect that some of the damage is under that new clear, sanding damage the shop didn't fully address before laying down the new clear coat.

 

John, not to be cruel - but the shop you used sound like a bunch of hacks. If the guy just makes matters worse w/ a rotary each time you go back that should be your first indication. A good bodyshop should have a guy on staff who knows how to buff a finish out and not add more damage. Sounds like they have a guy just going at it with bad technique and a wool pad.

 

I understand you're kind of stuck with them now, but if it does turn out to be that there is damage under the clear that you can't get to I'd start talking to them about reimbursing you for all the time you're having to put in to fix their shoddy work.

 

I've actually seen where they don't sand the body filler smooth enough and you can see the sand marks. That's why I say once it's in an accident, it's NEVER the same. (Not that yours was)

 

Chris

[Dr Jkel]

I know the spot that you are talking about John. Nice color choice by the way. I have had to fix a few minor scuffs in that area aswell. I found that the orange focus pad on a drill and some SHR knocked them out. The biggest thing to watch is heat build up. Polish for a few minutes and feel the panel. If it hot, which it should be warm, let it set for a few minutes then get back after it if there is still more correcting to be done. Just amke sure that you go back over that area with some thing like you PC and the white pad with FMP. If you can't get it out with the orange focus pad, I'd bet it under the new clear coat.

 

 

Randy,

 

Appreciate the info, but it is a little more than that. This is from the sandier when they sanded it after they cleared it. I tried the 4" pads and it didn't get the marks out. So I have a couple of options that I am looking at.

 

One is to finish detailing my entire car and identify areas that I don't like and take it back to the painter and see if he can or will fix it. Downside is that he leaves holograms and swirls city when he is finished.

 

Second option is wait until January until a clinic come to Atlanta and go over and have Aj, and Steve take a look and try to help me get it fix, not sure if we will have enough time is the only downside.

 

I could try the flex, but really need to practiceon something other than my car.

 

Or lastly make the trek to Kentucky and bring lots of Outback Money.

[ud_lose]

I know the spot that you are talking about John. Nice color choice by the way. I have had to fix a few minor scuffs in that area aswell. I found that the orange focus pad on a drill and some SHR knocked them out. The biggest thing to watch is heat build up. Polish for a few minutes and feel the panel. If it hot, which it should be warm, let it set for a few minutes then get back after it if there is still more correcting to be done. Just amke sure that you go back over that area with some thing like you PC and the white pad with FMP. If you can't get it out with the orange focus pad, I'd bet it under the new clear coat.

[Dr Jkel]

The damage they keep doing by buffing I see is more in the form of holgrams. They are using foam pads a white one and a black one. The pads have about 3/4 peeks and valleys and they are using 3M products to cut and buff.

 

The remaining damage, swirls etc... I figured out the last time I went to pick it up and was a little early and saw how they washed it. Let's just say that they didn't use the 2 bucket wash/ grit guard system and their RAGS, OMG. They won't be washing it anymore.

 

The only real thing I had to go on was word of mouth and sight and what I saw before was great work. I really believe that if you or AJ, Ryan, Steve or a Real Detailer saw what I was looking at that you could fix it. My problem is ALOT LESS experience. But best I can tell from what I know it looks like the scratches are sanding marks from when after they sprayed they clear and sanded it. The reason I say that is alot of the marks/scratches are in a 1/8" to 3/16" circular pattern.

 

Don't get me wrong there are a few straight line scratches/marks but that is not the majority.

 

While they may be using a Makita Rotary with an agressive cut or polish, my PC and Adam's is less aggressive and basically is jeweling their cut. Does this make sense?

[Team Adam's]

He had the car sanded and reshot with clear to get rid of orange peel.... I suspect that some of the damage is under that new clear, sanding damage the shop didn't fully address before laying down the new clear coat.

 

John, not to be cruel - but the shop you used sound like a bunch of hacks. If the guy just makes matters worse w/ a rotary each time you go back that should be your first indication. A good bodyshop should have a guy on staff who knows how to buff a finish out and not add more damage. Sounds like they have a guy just going at it with bad technique and a wool pad.

 

I understand you're kind of stuck with them now, but if it does turn out to be that there is damage under the clear that you can't get to I'd start talking to them about reimbursing you for all the time you're having to put in to fix their shoddy work.

[Chewy]

Yep! No machine is going to fix crappy paint... I have spots on my car too.

 

The paint on my F150 is MUCH better quality then my G8. I think the 11 years makes a difference. They seem to use MUCH less clear now.

 

Chris

[Dr Jkel]

You don't have to worry about areas like that, paint is thinnest (typically) on the RAISED edges. The areas I circled in yellow in this picture show areas you wouldn't want to have the machines standing on. The way to approach this type of area is to buff up from each side, the pad will contour slightly to the curve coming from each side and take care of polishing it with minimal impact.

 

The blue area (what I'm assuming you're talking about) isn't a concern... buff that like any other panel

 

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Dylan,

 

You are correct. The areas that I am talking about is the one in blue, I guess you could call it a seam for lack of a better term, but where it transitions from horizontal to vertical, that little cupped are/inside curve looking thingamagigy. This is where I have those sanding scratches I mentioned to you but the only real way I know is the edge so to speak since you can't lay the pads flat.

 

Like my luck, lol, the damage is in the center of the curve.

 

 

Chris,

 

What I am trying to do and have been asking Dylan is on the rear of our cars right behind the rear window, like in the picture, I have some scratches in that body line curve.

 

I have tried the PC with big pads, PC with 4" pads, 4" pads on a drill to get into that area but am not having much success.

 

I have about 5 different areas on my car with about 5 to 7 places in each area that I do not like and are not what you call "Perfect Paint" that I want to fix. Some you have to know that they are there,( I know) but the ones like I am describing about everyone can see and just makes my skin crawl.

 

 

SOOOO My thinking is that maybe the Flex with it's more power may be able to get to that area and the other places that the PC just can't handle. Trust me I am burning up Dylan's PM box, Sorry Dylan

 

The good part of it all is that unlike other forums people here actually try to help without being jerks, not to mention that they are very knowledgable.

 

If I can't get it fixed I still have my Ace in the Hole. I could always drive to Kentucky, Just got to save up some Outback money:lolsmack: and probably some beer money:cheers:

 

The funny thing, even though it it frustrating, is that I have always wanted to be able to do this. If I hadn't had my car wetsanded and re-cleared it probably would be this difficult, BUT I did and Now I have to fix it. The painter is no buffer let me tell you.

[GTAHVIT]

Dr Jkel

 

are you asking about using the edge of the pad to get in to the groves of the body?

 

or running the pad flat across groves/edges on the body?

[Team Adam's]

I guess it is like trying to buff the inside of a bowl edges, not on the edge but where the bottom meets the sides

 

You don't have to worry about areas like that, paint is thinnest (typically) on the RAISED edges. The areas I circled in yellow in this picture show areas you wouldn't want to have the machines standing on. The way to approach this type of area is to buff up from each side, the pad will contour slightly to the curve coming from each side and take care of polishing it with minimal impact.

 

The blue area (what I'm assuming you're talking about) isn't a concern... buff that like any other panel

 

[Kingsford]

Wow.... Dylan is the man!

[Dr Jkel]

I guess it is like trying to buff the inside of a bowl edges, not on the edge but where the bottom meets the sides

[Team Adam's]

Thanks for the information Dylan. I guess when I meant passes I meant times meaning applying more product.

 

The one are I am still a little confused on is where you say that I should not use the edge to buff. While I agree with your statement and the paint being thinner.

 

Where the rear quarter goes up to the rear glass makes an inside corner that has some damage/scratches etc.... so flat to curve to flat. What would be a good way to get the curve since it is rather a close curve.

 

Pretty much with edges the thing to understand is that you should try to avoid polishing across them. A few times won't be an issue, but b/c the paint is so thin in those areas too much and you may have a problem.

 

I'm trying to picture the area you described, you may have to use a combination of smaller pads and/or taping off edges to polish the area safely. Get creative and think outside the box. Every vehicle is going to have unique challenges and areas that require you to think to find a solution.

[Chris@Adams]

Good info Dylan!

[Dr Jkel]

Thanks for the information Dylan. I guess when I meant passes I meant times meaning applying more product.

 

The one are I am still a little confused on is where you say that I should not use the edge to buff. While I agree with your statement and the paint being thinner.

 

Where the rear quarter goes up to the rear glass makes an inside corner that has some damage/scratches etc.... so flat to curve to flat. What would be a good way to get the curve since it is rather a close curve.

[Team Adam's]

answers in red.

 

I am starting this thread because of the new Flex that Adam is offering. I like most probably have many questions on the Flex.

 

So post away your questions, I feel confident that the more knowledganble among us will help the rest of us out.

 

My questions.

 

With the PC you use 9 to 14 lbs of pressure, how much do you use with the flex?

Less. Just enough so that the foam is making full contact with the paint. Our new pad design starts to 'cup' the backing plate as pressure is applied... you want just enough pressure to see the foam START to cup, but not much. If you find the machine is walking you around the car or its too hard to control you're probably using too much pressure.

 

On inside corners/curves of body panels is using the edge ok on the flex?

You should still try to avoid buffing on edges, even with the PC... just b/c you can doesn't mean you should. Thin paint is thin paint... you don't want to push your luck.

 

How fast do you move the flex?

Pretty much the same speed you do the PC... slowly and methodically.

 

The product can be worked longer, so how long do you work the product. The PC you work it till it looks like vaseline almost. How do you tell with the flex?

The NEW polish has a long work time, that has nothing to do with the flex. The work times on both the SHR and FMP are actually reduced as compared to the PC b/c the flex is working quicker. You treat all polishing the same way... work it until it 'flashes' over (goes transparent)

 

Since it has more cut how many passes should you normally do in each stage with the flex?

Passes, as in working a product from start to flash - as many as needed. Start by doing one pass and evaluating the progress. You can't think of polishing in terms of formulas, so many factors go into the amount of passes needed to get a desired result that no 2 situations will be the same. Its not paint by numbers... we give you the outline, but its up to you to do some evaluation and make some decisions. Until you're familiar with the machine do some testing in one area to find out what it will take for you to reach perfect.

 

 

Thanks,

 

John