Diggerdan11 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Congrats, Always to hear about outsourcing but its also good to know there are some companies still hiring out there. Glad you did not have to wait to long, lots of people have been out of work for a year or more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug123 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Great news Paul! Hope for the rest of us out there. I think some of this outsourcing trend is starting to swing back, as the overhead dealing with the 3rd party companies is nuts. Dell already took it in the neck and brought their offshored desktop support back to the US, because no one could understand the version of "english" being spoken. I was called in by a local business owner to talk with Dell support (before this onshore move) to speak with desktop support, as I had worked for an Indian owned software company for 9 years and had a handle on their accents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well...got some sad news yesterday. Had a call with my CIO and they informed my I'm officially being outsourced to Indian labor. Whooo hoo..Go America!!! Another company incented to go offshore with American jobs. So far a handful of us got the notice. If we keep outsourcing everything, there will be no one who has any money to buy anything (except the company execs). It really was only a matter of time for me to be directly impacted by outsourcing, especially since I'm in IT but it won't ever seem right or make sense to me other than it's bottom line greed at the very root of it all. Just wanted to post an update on this. As much as I was bummed out when I got notified back awhile ago about getting out sourced to India, in the longer term impact to my immediate future things have turned out rosy. It's really not a problem with outsourcing. We need to avoid seeing another country and another people as the enemy simply because they're being allowed employment opportunities that displace American workers. Apart from people, technological progress right within our own country has displaced countless American jobs. Lamp lighters, elevator operators, the milkman... These are just three examples of jobs that no longer exist thanks to technology, because technology removed the need for them. At least with outsourcing, the jobs have merely been relocated. Comfortable? No. Progress? Yes. Here's why. If the OP was let go from his job to have it be replaced by less expensive foreign labor, it's because the value of the job being performed fell either due to an increase in available labor or else less need of the task being performed. In short, he was being overpaid to do a relatively common task. As such, he was let go and was replaced with an individual paid more in keeping with the modern valuation of the role. That does not, however, mean that his labor has no value. Because of years of industry experience, the value of his labor has risen over time even as the demand/value of the task itself fell. In short, so long as his skills are still relevant, it means he's in need of a job more suited to the value of his skills. That is, something where the job he's performing is worth what he's being paid. And guess what? He found such a job! The end result? The company that he used to work for gets the same task performed for less, while the new job that he's working gets a valuable employee, and he gets a role that is more demanding and more suited to his experience and skills. Everyone wins, including the Indian who now has a better-paying job that increases the quality of their life! It's simply economizing upon labor, and labor is the scarcest resource of all. Trying to stop it is actually harmful, not helpful! Congrats to the OP on finding a better, higher-paying job! This has been your optimistic libertarian spiel of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-V8V Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Everyone wins Well that's one person that this worked out for. How about the other 99% who are taking lower paying jobs, if they can find one ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well that's one person that this worked out for. How about the other 99% who are taking lower paying jobs, if they can find one ??? Options are, unfortunately, a career change or take the lower pay. After all, work and pay are not rights; they're just agreements between you and your boss. Harsh, but true. My dad went through this a few years back, also while I was in college. He was out of work from a contractor position after the company he worked for was bought out and the new owner wanted to cut costs. He ended up taking a job that was a slight pay cut and also a slight role change. It's worked out, as he's been there for several years and is moving up. But it was a little rough at first. I'll readily acknowledge that CEO's/bosses/etc. make many a dumb decision, and the invisible costs associated with outsourcing can actually outweigh the benefits. A poor use of something doesn't mean that something is bad, however. Whether destroyed by technology or relocated by outsourcing, job turnover is unfortunately a fact of life, and it's an engine of progress. I know chances are very good I'll go through the same thing at some point. After all, I work in engineering. But I still maintain my optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 It's really not a problem with outsourcing. We need to avoid seeing another country and another people as the enemy simply because they're being allowed employment opportunities that displace American workers. Apart from people, technological progress right within our own country has displaced countless American jobs. Lamp lighters, elevator operators, the milkman... These are just three examples of jobs that no longer exist thanks to technology, because technology removed the need for them. At least with outsourcing, the jobs have merely been relocated. Comfortable? No. Progress? Yes. Progress? Outsourcing is far from progress. Here's why. If the OP was let go from his job to have it be replaced by less expensive foreign labor, it's because the value of the job being performed fell either due to an increase in available labor or else less need of the task being performed. In short, he was being overpaid to do a relatively common task. As such, he was let go and was replaced with an individual paid more in keeping with the modern valuation of the role. Are you serious? It's about the corporation saving dollars by sending work to a location that has a much lower cost of living and therefore a lower salary. And the worse of it is these folks have horrible communication skills and create terrible public relations issues. Ask the folks at Dell that just brought back all there service support to the US. I'm not proud to say that my company, Dow Jones & Co. Inc., is as big an offender. They have sent all the support jobs to India and beyond. Much to the dismay of staff that have to rely on these folks to fumble around trying to resolve time critical issues. Forget the fact you can't communicate with them. That does not, however, mean that his labor has no value. Because of years of industry experience, the value of his labor has risen over time even as the demand/value of the task itself fell. In short, so long as his skills are still relevant, it means he's in need of a job more suited to the value of his skills. That is, something where the job he's performing is worth what he's being paid. And guess what? He found such a job! The OP is a very lucky individual. Explain to this to the 8.4 million folks that are out of work in the US that are looking for jobs. Forget adding the ones that are discouraged and not even looking. Closer to 12 mil. The company that he used to work for gets the same task performed for less, while the new job that he's working gets a valuable employee, and he gets a role that is more demanding and more suited to his experience and skills. Everyone wins, including the Indian who now has a better-paying job that increases the quality of their life! It's simply economizing upon labor, and labor is the scarcest resource of all. Trying to stop it is actually harmful, not helpful! Congrats to the OP on finding a better, higher-paying job! This has been your optimistic libertarian spiel of the day. Again, explain to the recent college grad who is out there looking for a job, but can't find one. I'm sure they will happily celebrate with you the successes of the Indian who got the job instead. The unemployment rate amongst these young adults is well over the national average. Are you aware that companies in India are having a hard time finding locals to fill jobs? 1 in every 100 applicants are qualified for the job they apply for. Why? Because the illiteracy level in India is very high. School systems are a joke and a country of 1.3 billion people has only one, yes 1, college ranked globally. Our country of 300 mil people has hundreds. So maybe we should send all our college grads to India for jobs. They are definitely quilified. But they aren't going to go... Who wants to live in India? Not even the Indians do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-V8V Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 But I still maintain my optimism. Optimism is a good thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Progress? Outsourcing is far from progress. I respectfully disagree. You're involving more and more people as never before thanks, really, to the wonders of the Internet. Information and, therefore, any work which can be represented as information can now be globally shared. The pool of available labor has thus expanded. I call that progress! Are you serious? It's about the corporation saving dollars by sending work to a location that has a much lower cost of living and therefore a lower salary. It's not that they have a lower cost of living and, therefore, lower wages. It's that they have a poorer skill set or poor access to employment opportunities, which limits their earning, which keeps them mired in poverty. If they could live like us, they would. But they can't afford to. The cool thing is that with all the additional employment they're finding these days, wage rates in India and China are skyrocketing. So certain things will eventually move back here once parity is achieved. And the worse of it is these folks have horrible communication skills and create terrible public relations issues. Ask the folks at Dell that just brought back all there service support to the US. Yeah, that was one of those poor choice things. They found out it was a bad idea and quickly fixed it. To still use Dell as an example, though, a lot of Dell's manufacturing has moved overseas without a negative impact. Here in North Carolina, for instance, their WS-1 facility outside Winston-Salem recently closed down as a cost-cutting measure. Downside? Loss of jobs here in the US. Upside? Less expensive products for Dell's customers, which means more money left over after a purchase, which means they can spend it on something else, which means they can support other jobs. The OP is a very lucky individual. Explain to this to the 8.4 million folks that are out of work in the US that are looking for jobs. Forget adding the ones that are discouraged and not even looking. Closer to 12 mil. Now if you want to talk about US employment as a whole, this'll definitely shift to politics, so I'm gonna avoid that topic, if'n ya dun mind. Again, explain to the recent college grad who is out there looking for a job, but can't find one. I'm sure they will happily celebrate with you the successes of the Indian who got the job instead. The unemployment rate amongst these young adults is well over the national average. Your point here actually also applies to foreign nationals moving to the US looking for work, as well as it does to outsourcing of labor. This is a trend that actually has me worried, though not for the reason you might think. I went to grad school to get my Masters degree in Computer Engineering. Most of my undergrad classes in engineering were composed of Americans. When I got to grad school, most of my classes were Indian nationals studying abroad. Where'd all the Americans go?? Why didn't they stick around for grad school? With the additional competition for jobs, we have to step up our game to make sure we have something to offer. This means working hard to keep your skill set current or spending more time in school. But the way to do it is not to deny opportunities to foreign nationals in order to limit supply. Are you aware that companies in India are having a hard time finding locals to fill jobs? 1 in every 100 applicants are qualified for the job they apply for. Why? Because the illiteracy level in India is very high. School systems are a joke and a country of 1.3 billion people has only one, yes 1, college ranked globally. Our country of 300 mil people has hundreds. So maybe we should send all our college grads to India for jobs. They are definitely quilified. But they aren't going to go... Who wants to live in India? Not even the Indians do... Once again, this is something that will improve with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-V8V Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Loss of jobs here in the US. Upside? Less expensive products for Dell's customers, which means more money left over after a purchase, which means they can spend it on something else, which means they can support other jobs. You seriously think there is an upside to the loss of jobs in the US ? And more of what money left over after buying a Dell, more of our unemployment check money leftover ? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you have been out of school for less than 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2hill Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 The company that he used to work for gets the same task performed for less For my part of my company this is not working. We have 'offshore resources' performing programming changes. The time it takes to give them the work, review their work, respond with corrections, review their work, respond with corrections,review their work, respond with corrections,review their work, respond with corrections,review their work, respond with corrections,review their work, respond with corrections, it takes more time and money than if the work was done in-house. The cool thing is that with all the additional employment they're finding these days, wage rates in India and China are skyrocketing. And they will price themselves out of the jobs as they are moved to the Pac-Rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ok guys, settle down, this is becoming a very heated discussion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Optimism is a good thing Absoultely! Hope and positive thoughts are the best thing we can foster... I respectfully disagree. You're involving more and more people as never before thanks, really, to the wonders of the Internet. Information and, therefore, any work which can be represented as information can now be globally shared. The pool of available labor has thus expanded. I call that progress! First let me present myself. I am 52 and have worked 30 years for the same company. 20 years with the WSJ and 10 years with Barron's. I am college educated, old school, but definitely not conservative. So... Progress at what cost? A global workforce is a great thing. Competition is fantastic. We are a complacent society that does need a wakeup call. But to allow corporations to reach for yield by sending jobs overseas that are needed in our country is a painful thorn in our economies side. Isn't America great? We can debate these topics in an open forum. It's not that they have a lower cost of living and, therefore, lower wages. It's that they have a poorer skill set or poor access to employment opportunities, which limits their earning, which keeps them mired in poverty. If they could live like us, they would. But they can't afford to. The cool thing is that with all the additional employment they're finding these days, wage rates in India and China are skyrocketing. So certain things will eventually move back here once parity is achieved. Exactly... But we have millions of folks in our country in those same shoes. Lets put better shoes on our children first. Please? Come to the city of Trenton. (I live in Cranbury 10 miles from there.) It's a war zone. Gangs fighting gangs. Poor access to employment opps, poor skill sets that limit thier earnings, which keeps them mired in poverty. There are many Trentons in our great nation. On a side note... Inflation and credit contraction is just about to strangle China and eventually India. Yeah, that was one of those poor choice things. They found out it was a bad idea and quickly fixed it. To still use Dell as an example, though, a lot of Dell's manufacturing has moved overseas without a negative impact. Here in North Carolina, for instance, their WS-1 facility outside Winston-Salem recently closed down as a cost-cutting measure. Downside? Loss of jobs here in the US. Upside? Less expensive products for Dell's customers, which means more money left over after a purchase, which means they can spend it on something else, which means they can support other jobs. Very bad choice and they were not alone. Not sure I'd call the fix quick, but thats small beans. And with all due respect. Disposable income is at an all time low for the middle class American. Sending the work to other countries and the notion of your upside isn't working. Or at least isn't having an impact. I think folks would rather have the job that Dell sent overseas, than go on welfare. I could be wrong. Now if you want to talk about US employment as a whole, this'll definitely shift to politics, so I'm gonna avoid that topic, if'n ya dun mind. Respectfully agree... It is definitely another can of worms. Your point here actually also applies to foreign nationals moving to the US looking for work, as well as it does to outsourcing of labor. This is a trend that actually has me worried, though not for the reason you might think. I went to grad school to get my Masters degree in Computer Engineering. Most of my undergrad classes in engineering were composed of Americans. When I got to grad school, most of my classes were Indian nationals studying abroad. Where'd all the Americans go?? Why didn't they stick around for grad school? With the additional competition for jobs, we have to step up our game to make sure we have something to offer. This means working hard to keep your skill set current or spending more time in school. But the way to do it is not to deny opportunities to foreign nationals in order to limit supply. Once again, this is something that will improve with time. One can only hope and stay positive... Ok guys, settle down, this is becoming a very heated discussion.. But still respectful... ...and appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It is now.. but I have seen these type of discussions go very south.. game on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It is now.. but I have seen these type of discussions go very south.. game on.. Politics and Religion the leading instigators of war! I'm done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-V8V Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It is a topic that does tend to get heated. We all have families to provide for and we need a job to do that. I know that in the next 5 to 7 years my job will be gone and I'll be in my mid 50's at that time. Not the optimal stage of life to be looking for a new job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It is a topic that does tend to get heated. We all have families to provide for and we need a job to do that. I know that in the next 5 to 7 years my job will be gone and I'll be in my mid 50's at that time. Not the optimal stage of life to be looking for a new job. I hear you Bill. I'm in the same boat... Print publishing is on life support with the internet providing data for free and advertising (our life blood) at historic lows. And we are doing good in comparison to our peers, the NYTimes and other local gazettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-V8V Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 My neighbor worked for the Boston Globe. His job ended last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Sorry to hear that... We shut down our entire printing operations for the WSJ and Barrons in New Jersey and Mass last year. Our new bosses felt it was a luxury we couldn't afford in this economy. They outsourced it to the Boston Globe and NY Post for printing operations. The quality of our print product couldn't be worse... But hey, at least the move temporarily saved the jobs of the press crews at the Globe and the Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
694doorbird Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 The cool thing is that with all the additional employment they're finding these days, wage rates in India and China are skyrocketing. So certain things will eventually move back here once parity is achieved. I was just reading an article last night that said within the next 40 years, India and China will be #1&2 in trade. We will drop to #3. I know 40 years sounds like a long time, but it will be here before you know it. Politics and Religion the leading instigators of war! I'm done... And the loss of friends. It is a topic that does tend to get heated. We all have families to provide for and we need a job to do that. I know that in the next 5 to 7 years my job will be gone and I'll be in my mid 50's at that time. Not the optimal stage of life to be looking for a new job. Question for you Bill, If you know that your job will be gone in 5-7 years, are you preparing for it now? I made that mistake, thinking my job was going to go away and didn't prepare for any thing else. Now, I'm getting to old to retrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 But still respectful......and appreciated. No kidding! Good discussing with you. I think this is one of the most civil discussions I've ever had about something like this on the Internet. Seriously, thank you! I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you have been out of school for less than 3 years. Correct, actually. 2.5 years out after 6.5 years in, and I'm still single. So if experience is the best teacher, I've just started my lesson. Still, guys, thanks for the discussion. And going back to the OP, again, congrats on finding new employment and at better pay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Well I'm almost done.... This deserved a reply. No kidding! Good discussing with you. I think this is one of the most civil discussions I've ever had about something like this on the Internet. ...Seriously, thank you! Still, guys, thanks for the discussion. ...! Agreed! You'll go far young jedi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-V8V Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Question for you Bill, If you know that your job will be gone in 5-7 years, are you preparing for it now? I made that mistake, thinking my job was going to go away and didn't prepare for any thing else. Now, I'm getting to old to retrain. In the next 3 years I will most likely be told to move to TX or NC if I want to keep my job, at my own expense. But knowing it would only be a short term situation even after I moved I don't think I will be going anywhere. Right now my company keeps telling us there is money available for training but we work so many house we can't take the time to attend any of the training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 you work so many house? I'm not sure what that means.. can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill-V8V Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 you work so many house? I'm not sure what that means.. can you elaborate? It means that I work so many hours that sometimes I throw typo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAYBEN Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Ahh gotcha.. ok, thanks for clarifying that for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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