camaro Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hey guys On an older vehicle (12 y/o) with severe paint swirls/fading etc does wet-sanding by-pass the need to clay bar? Can i just wet-sand with a 2k grit sandpaper OR is it necessary to clay bar & then wet sand? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 I need to do 2 vehicles the first will be practice lol my neighbor has an 01 caravan that they dont mind me practicing on in exchange for the free paint correction i will be doing for them (my first full-on detail job) the second will be an 01 VW beetle which belongs to a friend so I def do NOT want to mess that up at all the bug's paint isn't that bad; minor scratches, 2 small areas with touch-up paint on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2hill Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I need to do 2 vehicles the first will be practice lol my neighbor has an 01 caravan that they dont mind me practicing on in exchange for the free paint correction i will be doing for them (my first full-on detail job) the second will be an 01 VW beetle which belongs to a friend so I def do NOT want to mess that up at all the bug's paint isn't that bad; minor scratches, 2 small areas with touch-up paint on it The wet sanding should be the last resort AFTER you have tried all the polishes in order of aggressiveness (FMP, SHR, SSR). As other has said, clay first, then polish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryPolska Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hey guys On an older vehicle (12 y/o) with severe paint swirls/fading etc does wet-sanding by-pass the need to clay bar? Can i just wet-sand with a 2k grit sandpaper OR is it necessary to clay bar & then wet sand? thanks! If you have to ask this question....then you probably shouldn't be wet sanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 If you have to ask this question....then you probably shouldn't be wet sanding. appropriate user name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gencoupe3dot8 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not sure why forums seem to bring out the worst in (some) people... anywho... when asking this type of question it DOES leave the reader scratching their head, not knowing what your experience level is.... Also, consider posting a few pics when asking this type of question so the SMEs (Subject Matter Experts) can give you some helpful advice.... :worth: In other news, forum interaction can often be less flame-filled if you follow the advice of Covey: "Seek first to understand, then to be understood". Of course your mileage may vary.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not sure why forums seem to bring out the worst in (some) people... anywho... when asking this type of question it DOES leave the reader scratching their head, not knowing what your experience level is.... Also, consider posting a few pics when asking this type of question so the SMEs (Subject Matter Experts) can give you some helpful advice.... :worth: In other news, forum interaction can often be less flame-filled if you follow the advice of Covey: "Seek first to understand, then to be understood". Of course your mileage may vary.... Experience level: none I appreciate the effort to diffuse the all too often observed passive-aggressive comments afforded by anonymity. Supposedly, "we are all friends here." Intend to post pix by the end of the week - thanks for your continued interest in my issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gencoupe3dot8 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 A couple follow on questions: 1) Are any of the scratches/swirls etc catching with your fingernail? 2) Have you clayed the subject vehicle before? So in order: 1) Rinse 2) Foam (with gun) 3) 2 bucket wash, 2 mitts, one for top half, one for bottom half, if strip needed mix in dawn or APC 4) rinse 5) blow dry, towel dry w/detail spray and GWT 6) baggie test (why clay if you don't NEED to) 7) If baggie test shows u need it, clay w/detail spray/WW 8) some ppl rinse and dry again.... 9) fingernail test... if it shows u need to sand... pray, use a paint meter that shows layers if u can, ask a pro to show u.. etc... then start with least aggressive paper... i'll leave the specifics up to Junkman's videos... 10) clean those areas u have wetsanded.. get started on least aggressive polish that will remove your sand marks... 11) work on each areas as indicated by scratch depth and least aggressive polish that will remove your swirl marks... with Adams system make sure to follow from most aggressive to least aggressive polish (to complete the process, wipe, review...) and For example if you determine that SSR is needed flow with SHR then FMP..... if SHR is needed, follow with FMP.. wipe review panel portion... 12) chose to IPA wipe or not... 13) add sealer as indicated 14) add glaze as indicated 15) add wax as indicated... 16) sit back and enjoy your hard work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 A couple follow on questions:1) Are any of the scratches/swirls etc catching with your fingernail? 2) Have you clayed the subject vehicle before? So in order: 1) Rinse 2) Foam (with gun) 3) 2 bucket wash, 2 mitts, one for top half, one for bottom half, if strip needed mix in dawn or APC 4) rinse 5) blow dry, towel dry w/detail spray and GWT 6) baggie test (why clay if you don't NEED to) 7) If baggie test shows u need it, clay w/detail spray/WW 8) some ppl rinse and dry again.... 9) fingernail test... if it shows u need to sand... pray, use a paint meter that shows layers if u can, ask a pro to show u.. etc... then start with least aggressive paper... i'll leave the specifics up to Junkman's videos... 10) clean those areas u have wetsanded.. get started on least aggressive polish that will remove your sand marks... 11) work on each areas as indicated by scratch depth and least aggressive polish that will remove your swirl marks... 12) chose to IPA wipe or not... 13) add sealer as indicated 14) add glaze as indicated 15) add wax as indicated... 16) sit back and enjoy your hard work... Suuuuuuuper informative! Thanks so much for that! That really helped because I was under the impression that I had to clay the entire car, wet sand & then the paint correction you diligently listed above. Now I feel confident in approaching this project. I will still do my best to put up progress pics. The bug has been well maintained but the Caravan is a big blue junker looking for some much needed love lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 I also saw that you wanted to start with 2000 grit paper. That paper will go though your clear coat so fast that you will be into the paint before you realize it. Also, is this factory a factory paint job or a aftermarket paint job that you were thinking about doing this too? Do you have a paint thickness gauge? If not, how would you know how much clear coat you are removing, even on your practice piece? 2 factory cars from 2001 lol and I have no gauge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 If you haven't already I highly recommend giving these videos a look:Instructional Detailing Videos I would baggie test the car panel by panel but typically if you need to clay one panel you most likely will need to clay the entire car... hope that makes sense.... As for wet sanding you would only want to do that if ABSOLUTELY necessary... and only those areas that you must.... wet sanding is NOT for the faint of heart (I would practice on some junk car parts first if you can...) Once you have clayed the car once, unless it is out in the weather all the time and having contaminants shower all over it, I would baggie test after each wash, but expect you wouldn't have to clay each time.. or at least the whole car... the purpose of claying is to get any particles out of the paint that would get trapped in your polish pad and mar you paint up.... making your polish step kinda useless.... Hope this helps... Happy polishing... very helpful! i have watched a lot of the junkman vids but will check those out too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug123 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Claying is for removing embedded particles from the clear coat. Wet sanding is radical removal of the clear coat, and for me, nothing I have ever had to do. Plus, one slip up wetsanding and it's time to get that part of the finish repainted. I have done amazing recoveries with a PC and the SHR/Orange pad and FMP/white pad, and, it gives you lots of control over the process. I'd hold off on the wet sanding and approach the finish with the polishes only. To do wet sanding correctly requires a lot of skill, and to do it wrong is really easy. One slip and it's repainting time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganSRT8 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 if you are gunna jump into wet sanding, go one step above you abrasive scale you though you needed. for example 800<1000<1500<2000<2500<3000, dont drop all the way down to 800 of 1000 even, proper wet sanding takes time and is very steady and proper steps, preferably a paint thickness gauge. Im a big fan of the idea of going out there and getting a old door or something from a junk yard and trying it out that way first, thats what i did the first few times when i was wet sanding and it helped me get my technique down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Claying is for removing embedded particles from the clear coat. Wet sanding is radical removal of the clear coat, and for me, nothing I have ever had to do. Plus, one slip up wetsanding and it's time to get that part of the finish repainted. I have done amazing recoveries with a PC and the SHR/Orange pad and FMP/white pad, and, it gives you lots of control over the process. I'd hold off on the wet sanding and approach the finish with the polishes only. To do wet sanding correctly requires a lot of skill, and to do it wrong is really easy. One slip and it's repainting time. point well taken - i will have to do a thorough look over & will report back you guys if you are gunna jump into wet sanding, go one step above you abrasive scale you though you needed. for example 800<1000<1500<2000<2500<3000, dont drop all the way down to 800 of 1000 even, proper wet sanding takes time and is very steady and proper steps, preferably a paint thickness gauge. Im a big fan of the idea of going out there and getting a old door or something from a junk yard and trying it out that way first, thats what i did the first few times when i was wet sanding and it helped me get my technique down. Great advice! I guess that's where the Caravan will come in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK427 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 The wet sanding should be the last resort AFTER you have tried all the polishes in order of aggressiveness (FMP, SHR, SSR). As other has said, clay first, then polish. Try the polish on a 2x2 area and if that doesn’t do it for ya, then I would go into the sanding on the same 2x2. However, I did turn a close friend of mine on to the flex polisher machine and once he learned how to use it, he gave up a lot of his need for sanding on his CL cars that he would buy fix and sell! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGenCoupe Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I need to do 2 vehicles the first will be practice lol my neighbor has an 01 caravan that they dont mind me practicing on in exchange for the free paint correction i will be doing for them (my first full-on detail job) the second will be an 01 VW beetle which belongs to a friend so I def do NOT want to mess that up at all the bug's paint isn't that bad; minor scratches, 2 small areas with touch-up paint on it Jay Personally, I wouldn't take the risk of doing a wet sand on a neighbours car. If you mess it up, you never know; he might screw you and say you damaged his car and he might charge you to repaint it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc2hill Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Great advice! I guess that's where the Caravan will come in Sorry if this sounds rude, but dude, you ain't listening! At least a dozen members have politely said "do lots of other things first before attempting sanding" and "get a panel from a junkyard to practice on" - don't learn on the neighbors car! Polishing will remove microscopic layers of clear-coat, the more aggressive the polish, the more clear-coat it will remove. High end detailers will use paint thickness gauges before polishing. Sanding will remove lots of clear-coat, and without an expensive gauge you don't know how much clearcoat you have to work with. Not everything can be corrected to a showcar level, but almost all cars can be polished to look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Jay Personally, I wouldn't take the risk of doing a wet sand on a neighbours car. If you mess it up, you never know; he might screw you and say you damaged his car and he might charge you to repaint it. haha - got it. Seems like I'm going to try the wet sanding another day a la: Sorry if this sounds rude, but dude, you ain't listening! At least a dozen members have politely said "do lots of other things first before attempting sanding" and "get a panel from a junkyard to practice on" - don't learn on the neighbors car! Polishing will remove microscopic layers of clear-coat, the more aggressive the polish, the more clear-coat it will remove. High end detailers will use paint thickness gauges before polishing. Sanding will remove lots of clear-coat, and without an expensive gauge you don't know how much clearcoat you have to work with. Not everything can be corrected to a showcar level, but almost all cars can be polished to look better. not rude at all - dually noted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'm curious. Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but I do have a question. Why are you wanting to wet sand your finish in the first place? What do you think it will accomplish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'm curious. Maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread but I do have a question. Why are you wanting to wet sand your finish in the first place? What do you think it will accomplish? I was hoping to do a 110% job and make the car brand new again. I was under the wrong impression though JunkMan and have since been informed that 1) I need to practice wet sanding on scrap before doing a real job 2) It is only needed in specific areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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camaro
Hey guys
On an older vehicle (12 y/o) with severe paint swirls/fading etc does wet-sanding by-pass the need to clay bar?
Can i just wet-sand with a 2k grit sandpaper OR is it necessary to clay bar & then wet sand?
thanks!
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