question on abrasiveness

[Holty]

Can someone do a abrasiveness scale for the Adam's product similar to this one i found on autopia.org?

 

The ratings are on a scale of 10, higher number, more abrasive.

Product names and rating numbers are from containers.

 

#1 Medium-Cut Cleaner...................................7

#2 Fine-Cut Cleaner.........................................5

#3 Machine Glaze.............................................1

#4 Heavy-Cut Cleaner......................................8

#5 New Car Glaze

#6 Cleaner/Wax

#7 Show Car Glaze

#9 Swirl Remover 2.0.......................................3

#16 Paste Wax

#20 Polymer Sealant

#26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax

#28 All-Metal Polish

#52 Express Wax

#53 Cleaner Wax

#66 Quick Detailer............................................4 Cleaner/Wax

#80 Speed Glaze..............................................4

#81 Hand Polish

#82 Swirl Free Polish........................................3

#83 Dual Action Cleaner/Polish.........................6

#84 Compound Power Cleaner.........................9

#85 Diamond Cut Compound 2.0....................10

[SiegeX]

I would have to respectfuly disagree and contend that your conclusion does not logically follow from my earlier statement due to the fact that SHR contains micro abrasives wheras the wax does not.

 

The agressiveness of the pad determines how much of the force applied to the PC actually gets transfered to the micro abrasives in the polish. This is why the more agressive pads are so dense, as the pad doesn't give as much and really forces those micro abrasives into the paint. Let me be clear that I'm not trying to say the net affect is zero, I just strongly doubt it will be noticible; certainly no where close to doing damage to the paint. It's akin to your "can I damage my car with a PC video." The accepted answer is no but given enough time and determination you could conceivably do damage. Same is true here, however, all bets are off with a dry pad.

 

Now that I think of it, this would make a good video series for you. If you can find another car that had Spiderman and Wolverine duke it out on the paint, you can show just how much of a difference the pad+polish paring makes. As a bonus you can try my theory with yellow pad+wax. You should probably test the wax first so as not to contaminate it with abrasives. A new pad would be ideal but I've seen how well you clean em so that's fine too.

Edited March 4, 2010 by SiegeX

[Junkman2008]

I would have to respectfuly disagree and contend that your conclusion does not logically follow from my earlier statement due to the fact that SHR contains micro abrasives wheras the wax does not.

 

The agressiveness of the pad determines how much of the force applied to the PC actually gets transfered to the micro abrasives in the polish. This is why the more agressive pads are so dense, as the pad doesn't give as much and really forces those micro abrasives into the paint. Let me be clear that I'm not trying to say the net affect is zero, I just strongly doubt it will be noticible; certainly no where close to doing damage to the paint.

 

Now that I think of it, this would make a good video series for you. If you can find another car that had Spiderman and Wolverine duke it out on the paint, you can show just how much of a difference the pad+polish paring makes. As a bonus you can try my theory with yellow pad+wax. You should probably test the wax first so as not to contaminate it with abrasives. A new pad would be ideal but I've seen how well you clean em so that's fine too.

 

I already tried that, and ended up with this thread. That's how I know. Notice the date when it was first posted. Also, the density of the pad is not what determines the cut, it is the size of the holes that are in the pad. That's why a pad that is saturated with product has no cut, no matter what product is on the pad. The technology of the pads are very similar to the sponges that women use to exfoliate their skin.

 

I use one too when I want to get in touch with and clean my sensitive side.

[SiegeX]

I already tried that, and ended up with this thread.

 

I took a look at that thread and I only see the conclusion that changing pads with a given polish can affect the amount of cut; that we already know. What I am proposing is to get empirical evidence as to just *how much* a pad can affect a given polish with the same amount of buffing time. Ultimately, the difference is going to be subjective but it would be interesting to see the magnitude of the changes as you move through the following ladder:

 

 

1. Yellow + SHR
   
2. Orange + SHR
   
3. White + SHR
   
4. Black + SHR
   
5. Yellow + FMP
   
6. Orange + FMP
   
7. White + FMP
   
8. Black + FMP
   

We know for sure that #1 is the most aggressive and #8 is the least aggressive but how the others line up would be interesting to see. For example, is #5 more aggressive than #4? Also where would a Yellow + Wax fall?

 

Also, the density of the pad is not what determines the cut, it is the size of the holes that are in the pad.

They are one and the same. A pad with larger cells will be less dense than ones with smaller cells. A pad with larger cells (reducing its density) will absorb more of the polish thereby lessening the amount of micro abrasives available to mar the paint.

Edited March 4, 2010 by SiegeX

[Junkman2008]

I took a look at that thread and I only see the conclusion that changing pads with a given polish can affect the amount of cut; that we already know. What I am proposing is to get empirical evidence as to just *how much* a pad can affect a given polish with the same amount of buffing time. Ultimately, the difference is going to be subjective but it would be interesting to see the magnitude of the changes as you move through the following ladder:

 

 

1. Yellow + SHR
   
2. Orange + SHR
   
3. White + SHR
   
4. Black + SHR
   
5. Yellow + FMP
   
6. Orange + FMP
   
7. White + FMP
   
8. Black + FMP
   

We know for sure that #1 is the most aggressive and #8 is the least aggressive but how the others line up would be interesting to see. For example, is #5 more aggressive than #4? Also where would a Yellow + Wax fall?

 

 

They are one and the same. A pad with larger cells will be less dense than ones with smaller cells. A pad with larger cells (reducing its density) will absorb more of the polish thereby lessening the amount of micro abrasives available to mar the paint.

 

As for your first point, grab yourself a paint thickness gauge and have at it! For most of the folks here, SHR followed by FMP and then the wax of their choice is nice and simple and the way they want it. That's why I don't go off on tangent into these deep discussions. It confuses more folks than it helps. The last thing I want to see this place turn into is another Autopia. My videos are built upon the KISS method (keep it simple stupid). That's the way the Marines teach and I find it very effective.

 

As for your second point, feel the density of the orange pad as compared to the yellow pad. You will find that the yellow pad feels LESS dense than the orange, however, it is the more aggressive pad. That invalidates the way you're thinking. The colors that Adam's uses are industry standard unless you use Meguiar's products. Do you have both pads? If so, feel for yourself.

[whiterp199]

I am a big fan of the K.I.S.S. method. It sure does make things easy.

[Junkman2008]

I am a big fan of the K.I.S.S. method. It sure does make things easy.

 

For some of the guys I went to boot camp with, it kept the rest of us alive at the rifle range!

[Bill-V8V]

I took a look at that thread and I only see the conclusion that changing pads with a given polish can affect the amount of cut; that we already know. What I am proposing is to get empirical evidence as to just *how much* a pad can affect a given polish with the same amount of buffing time. Ultimately, the difference is going to be subjective but it would be interesting to see the magnitude of the changes as you move through the following ladder:

 

 

1. Yellow + SHR
   
2. Orange + SHR
   
3. White + SHR
   
4. Black + SHR
   
5. Yellow + FMP
   
6. Orange + FMP
   
7. White + FMP
   
8. Black + FMP
   

We know for sure that #1 is the most aggressive and #8 is the least aggressive but how the others line up would be interesting to see. For example, is #5 more aggressive than #4? Also where would a Yellow + Wax fall?

 

 

They are one and the same. A pad with larger cells will be less dense than ones with smaller cells. A pad with larger cells (reducing its density) will absorb more of the polish thereby lessening the amount of micro abrasives available to mar the paint.

 

While this would be a fun exercise it would only be applicable to the paint it was tested on. There are major differences in paint from not only manufacturer but models within a manufacturers lineup.

 

But to simplify your quest you should remove "Yellow+Wax" from the equation. You really don't want to be mixing a LSP with a polishing pad. That combination would do nothing but waste product, damage equipment and harm your finish

 

Keep us posted on your results :thumbsup:

[Junkman2008]

While this would be a fun exercise it would only be applicable to the paint it was tested on. There are major differences in paint from not only manufacturer but models within a manufacturers lineup.

 

:iagree:

[garcmol]

Somewhere in all this I read a new compound is in the works...... I follow K.I.S.S. and you can't beat color coded product. But, did I read there is a new compound in the works????

[whiterp199]

Somewhere in all this I read a new compound is in the works...... I follow K.I.S.S. and you can't beat color coded product. But, did I read there is a new compound in the works????

 

That is what Adam posted the other day.

[Junkman2008]

Somewhere in all this I read a new compound is in the works...... I follow K.I.S.S. and you can't beat color coded product. But, did I read there is a new compound in the works????

 

The compound will be more aggressive than SHR for more advanced situations. By no means should you think about replacing SHR with something more aggressive because it cuts more. That could possibly put you in a unrecoverable situation. Reason being, a more abrasive polish is going to do more damage to the paint. That means that you will have to do more work in the recovery stage when "finishing down" the the damage that you have done (that's what FMP does).

 

Remember, there's no need to nuke your problems when a couple of well placed 500 pound bombs will get the job done just as effectively, especially when you have to do the clean up.

[RyGo]

 

Remember, there's no need to nuke your problems when a couple of well placed 500 pound bombs will get the job done just as effectively, especially when you have to do the clean up.

soooo true!!! Again reiterating the "use the least aggressive means needed" mindset!!!

[garcmol]

I'm all about least aggressive means needed. And my car (hopefully) will never need something more aggressive. But new products are exciting, no?

[Junkman2008]

I'm all about least aggressive means needed. And my car (hopefully) will never need something more aggressive. But new products are exciting, no?

 

Yes they are.