Burnt Through Paint with DA

[ouhockeyplayer]

So I was polishing my 2013 WRX's front bumper yesterday with my Portal Cable, 4" orange pad and Adams correcting polish.  When I wiped the polish away I noticed that the edge of my bumper was burnt through.  Now I had the bumper repainted 4 months ago do to an unfortunate bottoming out incident, so I am wondering if the body shop cut some corners and did not put enough clear or color down.  I'm pretty shocked that a DA on a speed setting 4 with 4" pad could do this.  I took it back to the body shop today and they agreed to repaint it, but I'm wondering how this could have happened so easily? I was moving the machine so as not to build up heat in any one are. Interested to hear some opinions.   

 

[Team Adam's]

OUCH! At least the shop agreed to repaint.

 

So to clarify - what you have there is STRIKE THROUGH not a burn. "Burn" is a way overused term when describing machine damage, fact is its very hard to 'burn' anything, even with a rotary polisher. It takes a significant amount of heat to burn paint and the look is more of a discolored haze.

 

Strike Through (ST) is an instance where you remove enough of the surface to reveal the base coat, or in your case cut thru to the primer. Virtually ANY tool can cause ST if you start with a thin enough surface. From the looks of it you were polishing right on that edge which would be thin to begin with and if the shop went a little light on the paint it would be thin enough that just a few hits with a polisher could get you down to primer.

 

Never a good idea to polish on edges like that, even with a good coat of paint b/c it will be the thinnest area on any car.

[ouhockeyplayer]

Thank you for the advice.  I wasn't all that happy with my Subaru dealers body shop to begin with as they left a lot of orange peel and dull wet sanding marks in the paint that I later discovered when detailing, so I am assuming they did a rush job on this and didn't lay enough paint down.  The light wasn't hitting the car just right when I picked it up so I never noticed it until later on.  After getting the car resprayed, how do you suggest that I remove the swirl marks from their rotary polishing?  Should I just use revive and the blue hex pad?  As you can tell in the picture there is still paint damage from them going to town on it after the paint work.  

[Ricky Bobby]

Id use a less agressive pad and lower speed. Maybe even a bigger pad so there is less pressure per pass on the area after its repainted again.

 

Dylan's tips and advice were spot on but yes that thin edge didn't have much on it to begin with so you were flirting with disaster.

[Mnitetrain]

Most shops usually advise to wait at least 3 months before wax or sealing also. So might be a while b4 you can see how they did the second time.

[TheBurninator]

Most shops usually advise to wait at least 3 months before wax or sealing also. So might be a while b4 you can see how they did the second time.

 

For full cure time, yes 90 days is what most clear coats call for. A bit longer for water based paints.

 

And use body shop safe chemicals when washing, etc. Things containing silicone can cause issues with uncured paint. I wouldn't tape off fresh paint either. It can cause outgassing issues and you'll end up with really cloudy clear coat that buffing won't fix.

 

Generally the first week or two the paint is really soft. This time frame will depend on the specific paint and if it was baked or not and how thick it was laid down.

 

Side note: It would be cool to know which Adam's products are body shop safe.

[ouhockeyplayer]

I only use Adams Car Wash Shampoo and finish off with their detailing spray when doing a wash.  I'm assuming these are safe to use after a repaint.  Also, I always wait at least 90 days before applying any wax to a repainted area, but how long after repainting can you polish.  Obviously I'm going to be very careful with this bumper moving forward as the WRX as a lot of edges on the front bumper to navigate.

[TheBurninator]

I only use Adams Car Wash Shampoo and finish off with their detailing spray when doing a wash.  I'm assuming these are safe to use after a repaint.  Also, I always wait at least 90 days before applying any wax to a repainted area, but how long after repainting can you polish.  Obviously I'm going to be very careful with this bumper moving forward as the WRX as a lot of edges on the front bumper to navigate.

 

Since detail spray contains wax I doubt that it is body shop safe. The Car Wash Shampoo should be though.

 

Technically the initial cut buff on paint is done within the first 72 hours of the car being painted (refinish work only, not factory paint)

This levels some of the orange peel and improves clarity. This is also when the paint is the softest.

 

You can really polish whenever you want, just be aware the paint is softer until fully cured.

[Team Adam's]

Most people misunderstand or have been misinformed about what body shop safe means or even why you would be concerned with it. Post paint, once the clear has cured the need for BSS products is moot, unless you're going to be spraying them near a car that still wet or in the process of being painted. Silicone is the #1 enemy of body shop safe products, but I could take pure silicone and spray it all over a car that was painted a few days prior without issue.

 

The reason/need for BSS products is to prevent contamination of the substrate or the wet paint during the painting process as silicone or any airborne particles for that matter can cause fish eyes or other imperfections. When used on already cured paints there is no cause for concerns.

 

Proper prep for paint involves removing the previous paint job, sanding, and using a proper panel wipe to ensure proper adhesion. Doing this removes any silicone or other non-BSS components from the surface. Shops that cut corners want their customers using BSS products so they can essentially phone-in the prep stages and just spray over the top of the existing surface.

 

So long story short - Can you use DS on a freshly painted vehicle - ABSOLUTELY! Once the clear is hardened you can wash and wipe until you're hearts content. In the initial 30-90 days (depending on the painter and the process used) you'll want to avoid sealants just so the paint can continue to gas out.

[Ricky Bobby]

^^PROPER Explanation D.

[TheBurninator]

Most people misunderstand or have been misinformed about what body shop safe means or even why you would be concerned with it. Post paint, once the clear has cured the need for BSS products is moot, unless you're going to be spraying them near a car that still wet or in the process of being painted. Silicone is the #1 enemy of body shop safe products, but I could take pure silicone and spray it all over a car that was painted a few days prior without issue.

 

The reason/need for BSS products is to prevent contamination of the substrate or the wet paint during the painting process as silicone or any airborne particles for that matter can cause fish eyes or other imperfections. When used on already cured paints there is no cause for concerns.

 

I guess I am going off of what most spec sheets for clear coats refer to as cure time.

 

Over the summer I buffed out a buddy's car. He didn't let anyone/thing touch it until after the 90 day mark (What the dupont spec sheet claimed was cure time). He works at a body shop and was very concerned about the cure time before anything that wasn't rated body shop safe touching the car.

 

Side note, I should do a mini writeup on that car and the other I did at the same time.

[Ricky Bobby]

^For what its worth if the shop does bake the clear a bit the cure time is significantly reduced.  I had a front spoiler painted at a shop that bakes the finish when done to negate the normal 30-60-90 day cure, he told me flat out that I could go home that night and apply sealant on it.

 

I did so a week later just to be sure but no issues.  Moral of the story is talk to your body shop for the recommendations from them based on their processes, but yes as soon as the initial clear coat has dried and hardened you can wipe it down with QD's etc

[TheBurninator]

^For what its worth if the shop does bake the clear a bit the cure time is significantly reduced.  I had a front spoiler painted at a shop that bakes the finish when done to negate the normal 30-60-90 day cure, he told me flat out that I could go home that night and apply sealant on it.

 

I did so a week later just to be sure but no issues.  Moral of the story is talk to your body shop for the recommendations from them based on their processes, but yes as soon as the initial clear coat has dried and hardened you can wipe it down with QD's etc

 

I also think it heavily depends on if it is a solvent based paint or a water based paint. The dupont spec sheet I was looking at for my buddy's car was 1 hour bake time + 90 day full cure.

 

This was a water borne paint, which seems to take forever to dry in the first place.

 

Obviously he was erring on the side of caution with that.

[Team Adam's]

Cure time in terms of going from wet to hardened enough to touch it - you can use pretty much anything you want, you just shouldn't seal it as the paint will continue to gas out.

 

Cure time in terms of how long before you can seal it, 30-90 days, just so it can gas out. The reason they probably recommended BSS product was b/c most sealants would be categorized in the 'silicone' family b/c of their polymer content.

 

Splitting hairs - the simple way to look at it: If it provides a meaningful layer of protection it should be avoided per the painters recommendations. If its something like a detail spray then theres absolutely zero issue.

[TheBurninator]

Cure time in terms of going from wet to hardened enough to touch it - you can use pretty much anything you want, you just shouldn't seal it as the paint will continue to gas out.

 

Cure time in terms of how long before you can seal it, 30-90 days, just so it can gas out. The reason they probably recommended BSS product was b/c most sealants would be categorized in the 'silicone' family b/c of their polymer content.

 

Splitting hairs - the simple way to look at it: If it provides a meaningful layer of protection it should be avoided per the painters recommendations. If its something like a detail spray then theres absolutely zero issue.

 

Thanks for dropping some knowledge with this Dylan!

Edited February 12, 2015 by TheBurninator

[Vinnrox250]

Awesome information! I am dealing with a similar issue right now. I picked up my F250 from Ford today after having the hood repainted, due to a flaw in the paintwork and it is swirl central! And I'm not very happy with the work, so I'm meeting with the main manager on Monday to talk about getting that issue corrected.

 

I was wondering about how soon after a fresh paint job I could do a paint correction, and seal it up. Looks to be 90 days!

 

Thanks for the info guys!! Loving this forum!

[ouhockeyplayer]

Just got the car back from the dealer's body shop today, and it looks pretty good from what I can tell so far.  It didn't take long for it to get covered in the wonderful Michigan winter road gunk though.  Looks like they took a little more time with it this time and surprisingly the rotary swirl marks are not that bad this time.  Maybe I lucked out this time and got a more experienced employee working on it.  I guess we will find out in the spring when I can give the car a deep clean.

[ouhockeyplayer]

Quick question I just thought of.  Wondering if the extreme cold we are experiencing here in Michigan right now would have any effect on the new paint?  Obviously keeping the salt off of it at this point is impossible as well.  It was -16 this morning on my drive to work and got me wondering if the cold and salt could be harming the fresh paint?