SHR / Orange Pad and pressure

[teky929rr]

Hey everyone, after a freezing car wash I had some time to do polish/wax the car. My car is only 3+ months old I've notice quite a bit of light scratches all over. I decided to use SHR/Orange pad in a small area of my trunk. I was kinda freaked out that I made tons of swirl marks from it. Then I went to next step up and machine polish with the white pad. I got the swirl marks out but the light scratches are still there.

 

I checked to make sure the orange pad was clear of debris. Did I use not enough pressure? Or too much? I was at about 4-5k oscillation. Overall I decided not to use the SHR/Orange pad and just went with Machine polish /white pad. I will continue my work tonight with Super wax and gray pad. The car looks stunning but still have the light scratches all over (not swirl marks).

 

What am I doing or not doing? Junkman get up here already!

[Chris@Adams]

Well Said AJ!!

[Junkman2008]

I will begin my walking away now. Thanks A.J. I've watched your wet sanding videos, but I don't feel that confident to try!

 

It's a costly learning experience unless you have a beater. I know from experience to the tune of $1900. Me no makey mistakes no mo'!

[garcmol]

You have pretty much answered your own question. If your finger is catching then it is most likely too deep. That is not unusual. If all the swirls are out of that area, then you have done the best that you are going to do for that scratch. That is NOT a job for Dr. Colorchip. That type of scratch requires wet sanding. I suggest you leave that one alone and let a professional hit it. Wet sanding done by someone who knows what they are doing can remove it in minutes. A rookie isn't going to do anything but cost you a paint job.

 

Walk away Norman... walk away!

 

I will begin my walking away now. Thanks A.J. I've watched your wet sanding videos, but I don't feel that confident to try!

[Junkman2008]

Another question:

 

When do you know if a scratch is too deep to work out with the PC and orange/yellow pad?

 

I've heard the fingernail scraping over the scratch and other things. I know there is no correction for missing paint, but more paint. I've been working on a thin scratch while developing technique, but it seems I just can't get it to budge. The edges have smoothed but I think it's too deep and need paint. I did get all the swirls out so there is progress being made!

 

Suggestions? Dr. Colorchip is on order btw.

 

You have pretty much answered your own question. If your finger is catching then it is most likely too deep. That is not unusual. If all the swirls are out of that area, then you have done the best that you are going to do for that scratch. That is NOT a job for Dr. Colorchip. That type of scratch requires wet sanding. I suggest you leave that one alone and let a professional hit it. Wet sanding done by someone who knows what they are doing can remove it in minutes. A rookie isn't going to do anything but cost you a paint job.

 

Walk away Norman... walk away!

[garcmol]

Another question:

 

When do you know if a scratch is too deep to work out with the PC and orange/yellow pad?

 

I've heard the fingernail scraping over the scratch and other things. I know there is no correction for missing paint, but more paint. I've been working on a thin scratch while developing technique, but it seems I just can't get it to budge. The edges have smoothed but I think it's too deep and need paint. I did get all the swirls out so there is progress being made!

 

Suggestions? Dr. Colorchip is on order btw.

[Junkman2008]

Absolutely! Thanks, thought I was missing info somewhere out there. Now this is the second forum I've talked to you on. The other being C5. See you in April!

 

I will be there.

[garcmol]

Absolutely! Thanks, thought I was missing info somewhere out there. Now this is the second forum I've talked to you on. The other being C5. See you in April!

[Junkman2008]

I'm a little lost on the "primed" pad. If I use my new pad with a ring of product to get the pad primed, then use all purpose cleaner for cleaning the pad, aren't I removing all of the product from the pad?

 

Yes you are. The next time you use the pad, it will need to be primed again.

 

How often do I clean the pad to ensure the pad is "primed" and I can use less product?

 

You clean the pad every time you are done using it for the day. Don't let product dry up and stay caked into the pad. That creates a lot of dusting when you go to use the pad again.

 

You need to prime a clean pad as you would a new pad. The pad needs to have product on/in it in order to do what it does. If you go out and take a pad with no polish on it and start using it on you car, you will quickly realize that it isn't doing anything but damaging your paint. A pad with not enough polish on it will do the same on a smaller scale. Thus, the pad needs to be primed when you first start using it, and then you will adjust the amount of polish/detail spray that you will be using as you go along.

 

Does that make sense?

[garcmol]

I'm a little lost on the "primed" pad. If I use my new pad with a ring of product to get the pad primed, then use all purpose cleaner for cleaning the pad, aren't I removing all of the product from the pad? How often do I clean the pad to ensure the pad is "primed" and I can use less product?

[teky929rr]

Haha Peter, easier said than done. I will definitely try again once the weather gets better.

[JerseyGator]

I had this same issue when I started using my orange pad w/shr. Wasn't sure what caused it, but this makes perfect sense. Not enough polish or ds on my brand new pad. Just reworked the area and the micro scratches disappeared.

[Junkman2008]

Anytime.

[teky929rr]

Wow AJ, I am honored that you have spent the time to write your feedback. I've read it and will take it as my stepping stone towards a better understanding on how to be patient with my work. I will follow the tips you have provided me and try my best to get to the shine I need.

 

You hit a very key point about priming my pads. This is something I did not do and I believe its what caused the unexpected effect of the swirl marks from the orange pad. with this new found info I will make sure I take the necessary steps to not to make the same mistakes.

 

Thanks AJ and to everyone else in the forum!

[Junkman2008]

Hey Chi, here's the deal.

 

The orange pad/SHR combination really beats up the clear coat. If you apply the correct amount of polish and pressure, the finish will appear to be slightly hazy with extremely small circular scratches remaining. You are only going to be able to see this damage on dark colored cars.

 

Hi Junkman:

 

This is the condition I ended up with along the edges of my hood about a year and a half ago. Since then I have put enough stuff on by hand so this is not as obvious but its still there.

How do you get rid of this??

 

Thank you

 

P S ...black C6

 

Do the process, just as it has been stated. Start at step 1 and work your way through.

[xlr8rvette]

Hey Chi, here's the deal.

 

The orange pad/SHR combination really beats up the clear coat. If you apply the correct amount of polish and pressure, the finish will appear to be slightly hazy with extremely small circular scratches remaining. You are only going to be able to see this damage on dark colored cars.

 

Hi Junkman:

 

This is the condition I ended up with along the edges of my hood about a year and a half ago. Since then I have put enough stuff on by hand so this is not as obvious but its still there.

How do you get rid of this??

 

Thank you

 

P S ...black C6

[Junkman2008]

Hey Chi, here's the deal.

 

The orange pad/SHR combination really beats up the clear coat. If you apply the correct amount of polish and pressure, the finish will appear to be slightly hazy with extremely small circular scratches remaining. You are only going to be able to see this damage on dark colored cars.

 

First, let's discuss the correct amount of polish. The correct amount of polish that you will be using depends first on the condition of your pad. With a brand new or very clean pad, you will need to prime it first. Priming the pad means to get the total surface of the pad ready to work. Since a new pad does not have polish in all of its pores, you need to get the pad in that condition so that you are not working with a dry pad.

 

This is achieved buy putting a thin bead of polish completely around the pad, about 1/2 inch from the edge. You then hit the pad with 2 solid squirts of detail spray. Next, completely dab the polish onto the car in the area that you will be working (normally a 1 to 1.5 foot area). This will help spread the polish around the pad and your work area.

 

If the pad is used or dirty, it will not need to be primed as thoroughly, especially if it still has polish on it. In that case, you will use 3 large pea sized drops in a triangle formation on the pad. The need to spritz the pad with detail spray will depend on how the pad is responding or the physical look of the pad. If the hex shaped raised areas of the pad begin to flatten down, then you need to start using less product and do more spritzing. This will flush all of the excess product out of the pad and cause it to cut more. The more clogged with product the pad becomes, the less work it will do. Thus, you have to always be mindful of the shape your pads are in as you work on the car.

 

What you should take from what you have read thus far is that the amount of polish that you will be using during the polishing process will vary as you work on your car. The amount will be determined by the shape your pads are in. The size of the area that you are working in should always remain the same or you will further affect the amount of polish that you need to use. Keep the process simple by NOT introducing too many variables into the polishing process. You should use a 1 to 1.5 foot working area while watching the condition of the pad. Adjust the amount of polish and detail spray to keep the pad optimal. Now let's discuss pressure.

 

You will find that a lot of detail guys have their own way of doing things. Although Adam does it one way, I do it another. In the end, we always end up at the same place. The reason for the different methods is we have all learned from different people or our own experiences. We have practiced and practiced our method until we could consistently get it right. I say that because you may see or read how someone else does this and notice that their way is different from mine. What you should conclude from that is that we all may have our own variations, but if it works then it is not wrong but different. Here's how I work with pressure.

 

Because of the way the PC rotates and oscillates, I use a logical approach. In order for me to achieve the maximum productivity from the PC, I must allow it to "do what it do." If I apply to much pressure, the PC will not rotate effectively. Rotation speed is what makes a rotary polisher so effective and dangerous. The PC is not going to rotate as fast as a rotary but it still has an effective rotation and you must allow it to do so. Thus, I want all of the rotation that the PC can offer. In order to achieve this, I never want to work faster than a speed setting of 5 (for control purposes), and use no more than 9-14 pounds of pressure. If you don't know what 9-14 pounds of pressure is, set the PC on a scale and push down while looking at the numbers. Bingo... now you know. Allow the PC to work for you, not the other way around. Applying to much pressure only wears you out, not the PC. Once you begin to get tired, you become sloppy and start rushing the process. After that, your results will begin to suffer.

 

We have discussed how much product to use and why. We have discussed how much pressure to use and why. Now the issue of speed should be addressed. Luckily, you can see how fast I move in any of my videos. Since you are working in a small area, you cannot logically go that fast. Logic is what you should use concerning this aspect of polishing. The faster you go, the less time that the PC is going to be working in any one area. Less work, less results. Thus the slower you go, the more work the PC is going to do in a given area. It's common sense and you can actually experiment on your own car. You can work two different spots, side by side at two different working speeds and see the difference in the results. That can be used as a guide. Everything that you have read thus far is nothing but common sense. When you start looking at it that way, this whole process becomes a lot easier to understand.

 

Once you have finished an area with SHR, you will always follow that with the white pad/FMP combo. The area should clean up very nicely after that. How nice it cleans up totally depends on how effective you were with SHR. This is a learned process and you are not going to be busting out a showroom finish shine the very first time you do this. Understand that and get in your practice time. You will notice improvement as you develop your technique. Give yourself time to learn and stay true to the process. Deviating will only give you sub par results and you won't truly learn how to effectively use the products.

 

If you have any more questions, Shoot away. We are all here to learn from one another.

[teky929rr]

I did not go back to the SHR and just went to the next step MSW. Car looks awesome tho, I'll take pics this weekend. I'll use the SHR on the wife's car to further test...

[grevels]

I believe it is 9 -14 lbs of pressure. I watched has slow cut videos not too long ago.

[xlr8rvette]

It's ALL about pressure, speed and patience.

 

Start with hard pressure and then slowly reduce the pressure as you see fit.

 

It truly takes time and patience to get it right IMO. Every so often spray with DS to keep the polishes active.

 

Chris

 

 

This is the exact problem I encounterred when initially using the pc2474. The advice was pressure, speed and volume of polish. However, these words are too generic. What is hard pressure to one person may be different for another. Same with go slow or apply only a little polish. What is slow and little?

 

When I asked for clarification before the Junkman posted a very good thread. He described slow as a certain distance to move the buffer in so many seconds, in reference to the amount of polish he specified so many certain sized dots on the first pass then reducung to X number after the 3rd or 4th pass (as the polish will accumulate as it is repeatedly applied to the pad) and for pressure he specified so many pounds which you would use a weighing scale to get the feel for.

 

This info may be on one of the videos (I haven't viewed lately). Maybe someone can refer thereto or Junkman could repost this info. The point is it needs to be measureable and not generic.

Thank you.

[Chris@Adams]

It's ALL about pressure, speed and patience.

 

Start with hard pressure and then slowly reduce the pressure as you see fit.

 

It truly takes time and patience to get it right IMO. Every so often spray with DS to keep the polishes active.

 

Chris

 

Also watch this! Chapter 8 - Scratch Removal

[teky929rr]

I will try again tonight time permitting.

[teky929rr]

Sorry guys I left out that part. Yes I clayed the whole car prior to and I spray DS and smear the SHR a little bit prior turning it on. I watched Adams video again right before I started. (LOL)

[Chewy]

It's ALL about pressure, speed and patience.

 

Start with hard pressure and then slowly reduce the pressure as you see fit.

 

It truly takes time and patience to get it right IMO. Every so often spray with DS to keep the polishes active.

 

Chris

[Sooners]

Did you clay before using the SHR? If there were contaminants that needed to be removed first, then you may have been polishing these into the paint.

 

Also, are you sure they weren't there before? The reason I ask is that since you gave the paint a good cleaning with the SHR, perhaps you just revealed what was truly there to begin with.

 

Just throwing out some ideas here.

 

Edit: Looks like Eric beat me to the clay question.

[ArmyAcadia09]

Did you clay before? Also did you spray pad with DS first? That gets the pad moist, also helps to spread SHR before turning PC on. Junkman will probably have more but thats all I can think of. Never had that prob.