Swirls in wax?

[G8V8]

I've noticed a lot of swirls bands in my finish when the sun hits it just right (just wrong?) It has been through SHR, etc. the whole show and it looked great but now after a while I started seeing the swirls. (No car washes or anything like that). Inside when I looked closely at the paint I could not see swirls in the paint. I used some 50/50 on a door panel and hit is quickly with some machine wax. The next day when I pulled into the sun, the door I stripped was swirl free but the one beside it still showed the swirls. It really seems like the "swirls" were in the wax or detail spray or glaze that had perhaps built up. Does this make any sense?

[Chewy]

Are you sure they're scratches and not the build up of DS? I had that happen. The oils get thick enough (for lack of a better term) that you start seeing smearing or what look JUST like fine hairline scratches all over your car. I literally almost cried after correcting my car and seeing them before I washed it and applied the first coat of wax.

 

Start using WW instead of DS and if you're showing it then use DS or better yet... BSG which will hide some of the finer scratches with the fillers it has in it. Too much DS is NOT a good thing. I believe it'll start clouding as well.

 

What you're doing seems right as long as your using your duster like AJ showed and are keeping a clean side of the towel all the time. I myself won't touch my G8 with WW or a CD because it's not worth the aggravation.

 

Just my .02¢ keeping in mind I have the EXACT same car.

 

Chris

[Chewy]

ok, thanks a bunch. I'll get to detailing more often then. lol I was definitely concerned I was doing it too much but I see I was way off.

 

Americana WILL last longer than the Buttery. Remember 2 coats lasts nearly as long as one of MSW.

 

Chris

[IMADreamer]

You are waiting way to long before your repeat use of MSW and the time between Buttery Wax is way too far. You can do Buttery once every two weeks. MSW on a car in those elements should go on once every 3 months.

 

ok, thanks a bunch. I'll get to detailing more often then. lol I was definitely concerned I was doing it too much but I see I was way off.

[Junkman2008]

MSW in November and usually again around June. Buttery twice between those. Daily driver, never garaged.

 

I do have Americana which is going to arrive on Wednesday, but it's mainly for my Grandfathers old pickup truck we recently restored. Although I want to try it on my Cobalt. So I'm not exactly sure where I will work it into the mix. I'm sure buttery will get little use after I try it.

 

You are waiting way to long before your repeat use of MSW and the time between Buttery Wax is way too far. You can do Buttery once every two weeks. MSW on a car in those elements should go on once every 3 months.

[Chewy]

VERY little... I haven't touched mine since... Heck I don't think I've seen mine since. lol

[IMADreamer]

How often is that and with what?

 

MSW in November and usually again around June. Buttery twice between those. Daily driver, never garaged.

 

I do have Americana which is going to arrive on Wednesday, but it's mainly for my Grandfathers old pickup truck we recently restored. Although I want to try it on my Cobalt. So I'm not exactly sure where I will work it into the mix. I'm sure buttery will get little use after I try it.

[Junkman2008]

I'm confused now whether I'm waxing too much or not enough. lol

 

How often is that and with what?

[IMADreamer]

I'm confused now whether I'm waxing too much or not enough. lol

[G8V8]

OK. Less is more. I washed, dried it and put a first time ever coat of americana on it followed by a very light buff down with a little DS. Photos are in the CARS folder. Thanks for all your help. That is one sweet wax!

 

http://adamsforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7585

[Chewy]

I think where the disconnect is sometimes is people with "Sunday Drivers" and people with daily drivers are mixing and the people with SD's are waxing their cars as often or more often than people with DD's. Just a thought. I wax mine every other time I wash it usually because it sits out ALL day at work in an industrial area. Mine is garaged at night however. In the winter it goes from the fall to the Spring with nothing more than a couple coats of MSW. No hand washes or anything ALL winter long. Fact is, these finishes are pretty strong.

 

Oh and if mine gets washed twice in a month I'm doing great! lol

 

Chris

[Junkman2008]

LESS IS MORE. Embrace that concept.

 

All this wiping and more wiping while applying different products to your paint is doing nothing but creating a mess on top of the paint. As I have said on many occasions, the less you touch the paint, the better it is for the paint. It is better for the look of your finish and the condition of it to do a 2-bucket wash when you car is dirty, than it is to do that regiment you listed. I could take a car that was completely corrected and waxed with MSW and show you a better shine than what you are looking at presently. That is because the shine is not being clouded up with multiple products and processes that are totally unnecessary.

 

If the car is dirty, wash it... period. If the car is dusty, my dust removal videos explain how to clean it. Wax does not make paint shine so applying it all the time does not make it shine more. Until you grasp this concept, you will continue to have a confused finish and keep unnecessarily wasting product.

[JPEGXP]

Good post V8, this exact topic was crossing my mind the past few days. I corrected my hood, it passed my camera test and looked good under the lighting in my garage. This week the sun has been exceptionally bright and brutal, and I had to drive my car two days. While it was parked I was outside admiring it. I could swear under this bright sun I was seeing the finest swirls that I have never been able to see before.

I have worked a while on my hood, and have done one front fender. I can't really compare the hood, but I can the fenders and obviously I see a great difference between the two.

I think maybe I'm losing my mind, or am beyond obsessed. Next bit of free time I get I plan to re work the hood again. (in a past post you can see before and after shots of my hood)

[G8V8]

Thanks Chris. Washing it may remove it. I never noticed. I did the paper prep with the CD. Thanks. I appreciate your help. Less really is more!

[Chewy]

A new CD WILL leave lines of wax if not prepped right by using either news paper of a paper bag to absorb the excess wax and oils.

 

Also using to much DS does EXACTLY what you're seeing. At least that's been my observation on my own vehicle. It SHOULD be gone after a wash though.

 

Maybe Dylan or AJ can add something. I've never had to use 5050 to remove it from mine. WW with a polishing towel worked for a small area but I instead washed it to get it all off.

 

Chris

[G8V8]

What i'm saying is I'm sure it is not scratches in the paint. It seems to be swirl-like reflections when the sun hits it just right. If I take some 50/50 and wipe an area with these swirl-like reflections, they go away in that area even though they are still there above and below where I just cleaned. I said "swirls in wax" in my subject line but I just meant everything on the car- wax, DS, glaze, etc into one word-wax. It really looks like a film or something the reflects light and looks sort of like swirls. I was looking to find out if I'm doing something wrong in application and/or use or if too much of a good thing is bad. This might be as where the attage "If enough is good, too much is better." doesn't work.

 

How should one use a duster? I think I missed that one. Could i be inducing lines in my "coating" and they reflect like swirls? Many times I end up dusting and DS on a pretty warm car in the sun. It is hard to go right from work to a show on a sunny afternoon and not have a hot car, especially when it is black.

[G8V8]

Ok, so the car gets it's 2 or 3 times a year deep clean, clay bar, SHR, Machine polish, machine wax, buttery wax. It get hand washed with wax safe soap and then DS every week or more. Before Friday shows if it is not dirty it gets dusted down or waterless washed and DS, maybe glazed. the next day before the Saturday show it get dusted or waterless washed and DS. All with Adams stuff, including micro products. If it gets dirty it gets washed and it all starts over again with DS. At some point along the way I start seeing swirls or lines of silvery reflections. with 50/50 the reflections mostly go away and after machine wax they remain gone.

 

So, do we think it is too many cycles or waterless wash, DS and glaze between the 50/50 clean and rewax?

[Chewy]

Agreed! I am going for longevity which is why I layer... My car is no shinier now then it was before any "wax" products were applied.

 

Chris

[Junkman2008]

AJ...lots of guys are putting a wax on top of the MSW.

 

My understanding is that the MSW is more of a sealant, not really a wax...and then a coat of BW or Americana is put on top. Whats your thought?

 

As far as BSG, I only use that just before a show for some extra pop.

 

MSW is a sealant, but also a wax. It has a great depth to it by itself, but I usually do put some buttery over the top of it for some added pop. I think MSW is a little underrated on this forum for it's depth and shine properties.

 

As you all have heard me preach over and over again, wax does not make paint shine. Layering MSW with something like Americana to give it more depth is something that only makes since if you look at the makeup of Americana. It is a thick, carnuba paste and thus, should by logic have more depth to it than say Buttery Wax. The same with MSW. Because of how thick it is, it should also have a bit of depth to it.

 

The main thing about MSW is it has the ability to hide small imperfections in the paint. That's why it is best left alone, especially with novices. It does an excellent job by itself and more folks should appreciate what it does by itself instead of attempting to improve the look that it already has. Since wax does not make paint shine, you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to obtain more shine by layering waxes. Looking for depth is something else, but it has to be done correctly or you are just creating a smear mess on top of your paint.

[IMADreamer]

AJ...lots of guys are putting a wax on top of the MSW.

 

My understanding is that the MSW is more of a sealant, not really a wax...and then a coat of BW or Americana is put on top. Whats your thought?

 

As far as BSG, I only use that just before a show for some extra pop.

 

MSW is a sealant, but also a wax. It has a great depth to it by itself, but I usually do put some buttery over the top of it for some added pop. I think MSW is a little underrated on this forum for it's depth and shine properties.

[XQIZT]

AJ...lots of guys are putting a wax on top of the MSW.

 

My understanding is that the MSW is more of a sealant, not really a wax...and then a coat of BW or Americana is put on top. Whats your thought?

 

As far as BSG, I only use that just before a show for some extra pop.

[Junkman2008]

Thanks for understanding.

Car had been SHR, FMP, MSW, BW, and Glazed. Then a number of apps of DS.

 

Reflections seem to be in a film on the car. When rubbed down with 50/50 the film and reflections (swirls) are gone. Wondered if wax was not dried enough when buffed off and DS used over it or perhaps too many apps of DS between cleaning and rewaxing. When stripped with 50/50, no swirls left. When then waxed with Machine wax again, no swirls.

 

Okay, why are you putting so much stuff on top of the MSW? This is your worst mistake. You are not enhancing the shine by doing that.

 

Think about it like pancakes. You add syrup and butter. Bam, you have a winner. You could add blueberries, strawberries, whip cream, peanut butter and chocolate, but after all that, the only thing you have is a complete mess. Use the "KISS" method (keep it simple stupid). The less you do when it comes to waxing, the better it is for your shine.

 

Get all that junk off your paint and start with a fresh application of MSW (provided your paint is as close to swirl free as you want it). After applying MSW and allowing it to dry, wipe it off and allow it to cure for 12-24 hours Then, come back and wipe it down again with detail spray. At that point, your paint should be looking as pristine as possible.

 

Layering wax is something that takes practice and attention to detail if you are going to do it successfully. The way you are going about is providing no added protection and is mucking up the finish. MSW is a sealant and needs to be applied in very thin coats. Gobbing it on does nothing for the look of your shine, and will actually create the condition you are experiencing. Remember, wax does NOT make paint shine, polishing does. If you are trying to make your paint more shiny, you are totally using the wrong products to do so.

 

KISS. It works. Ask anyone with military experience.

[G8V8]

But he's having the opposite problem. No swirls on bare paint, but "swirls" when waxed.

 

It may not be the correct term. He might be seeing fine streaks that appear as "swirls."

 

Thanks for understanding.

Car had been SHR, FMP, MSW, BW, and Glazed. Then a number of apps of DS.

 

Reflections seem to be in a film on the car. When rubbed down with 50/50 the film and reflections (swirls) are gone. Wondered if wax was not dried enough when buffed off and DS used over it or perhaps too many apps of DS between cleaning and rewaxing. When stripped with 50/50, no swirls left. When then waxed with Machine wax again, no swirls.

[lawson4450]

are you using alot of DS maybe a buildup on the car?

[XQIZT]

But he's having the opposite problem. No swirls on bare paint, but "swirls" when waxed.

 

It may not be the correct term. He might be seeing fine streaks that appear as "swirls."

[mikeg6045]

There is no such thing as swirls or scratch's in the wax imo. For some reason a lot of people that are new to detailing there cars think this. Maybe its just the fact that it hurts to know that your new car came with or has swirls or scratch's in the paint and need serious correction. lol

 

Ive seen lots of peeps with new cars swear by this. If the swirls or scratch's are going away when you wax, its likely because your wax or polish is filling them, or the reflection from the wax makes it harder to notice. Some paint colors make it almost impossible to see the defects in the paint that need correction. I have a gray metallic and I need to be in my dark garage with 1000watts of halogens on at a sharp angle, while standing at the opposite sharp angle to see the defects. sometimes i find myself practically laying on the garage floor to see the spiderweb scratch's in the door and quarter panels. my dad thinks i'm nuts when he walks in the garage on me.