MSW Stuck on Paint

[Eidolon]

Hey, guys. I'm having some issues while trying to wax my G8. I put on two coats of Machine Superwax, buffed 'em both. Now there's some spots of MSW left on the car. The problems I'm having are as follows:

 

 

1. A simple shot of detail spray isn't enough to remove it
   
2. Rubbing hard with my white microfiber cloth (the Adams superplush replacement for the True Blue) is a no-no and does appear to be putting scratches into the paint
   
3. My white microfiber towels are losing their fibers onto the paint just like the True Blue did at the end of those towels' days, even though I've only ever washed them in cold water with Woolite and dried them on low in the dryer.
   

So is there anything I can do to bring my towels back from the dead? And can I use something stronger like APC to clean the paint? Or do I need to let the DS "marinate"?

 

Thanks for the help.

[Eidolon]

Why not a CA Duster?

Just ordered one, and I'm watching your waterless wash vidoes as I type this. Still plenty to learn.

[Eidolon]

Okay, here are my observations.

 

Is that a stinkin' handle i see in this picture?

Much to my chagrin, yes. I actually tried removing it before I noticed you didn't use it, but then discovered - also much to my chagrin - that the cover pops off if you don't have the handle in place. I need to get a bolt to stick in it. Then I can get rid of the blasted thing. Few moments are worse then trying to manuever in a tight spot and hearing the thrumming of that handle vibrating against your paint thanks to a moment of carelessness!

 

You're beginning to figure it out. All it takes is practice and you'll figure out stuff along the way. Of course, I cover all this stuff in my videos so you should have picked it up from watching them but hey, at least you'll never forget what you're learning.

 

I was trying to apply what I saw and just wanted a double check. I reeeally don't want to go through this a second time!

 

Why not a CA Duster?

 

A wha? This thing?

[Junkman2008]

And I just finished buffing the car. It's amazing how much easier the buffing process is when the superwax isn't an inch thick.

 

Also, I don't have a car cover, so before I buff it a second time and then put the Americana on, I'll mist it with DS and use a GWDT to very carefully clean it off.

 

Why not a CA Duster?

[Junkman2008]

Okay, here are my observations.

 

Is that a stinkin' handle i see in this picture?

 

 

To each his own. Adam likes it too.

 

You're beginning to figure it out. All it takes is practice and you'll figure out stuff along the way. Of course, I cover all this stuff in my videos so you should have picked it up from watching them but hey, at least you'll never forget what you're learning.

[Junkman2008]

You never catch everything that I point out in my videos the first time that you watch them. I can just about guarantee that if you watch them 3 times in a row, you will see something new each time. That is the nature of the beast when watching a video tutorial. They are all in my area, watch them all. You can never watch them too many times.

[Eidolon]

There are more towels at the warehouse! Use my coupon code and get you some at a discount.

 

... You have a coupon code? I did not know this! I almost made a purchase tonight using a code from the G8 forums I frequent, but I don't really have the funds right at the moment. I should later this month, though...

 

Also, since I'm paranoid, please double check me on my wax-work.

 

Below is the amount on the pad. I didn't need to re-cover the hood or front bumper, and I'm not doing the trunk-top or roof since those will be wrapped in vinyl. So this was the amount on the pad, and I put this much on a grand total of 6 times to cover everything except what I just listed.

 

Amount on the car in the pic below. This was the spot on the car where I'd primed the pad. I also found I could extend the product in the pad by using a quick shot of detail spray to keep it moist.

 

Looking OK?

 

As I type this, it's been on the car for about 40 minutes. So I'm going to go buff it off after I post this. The next buff will come tomorrow evening (more than 12 hours later, but it's the best I can do), after which I'll put on some Americana.

[Junkman2008]

There are more towels at the warehouse! Use my coupon code and get you some at a discount.

[Eidolon]

Well, boiling the Great White Drying Towels seems to have done them good. Significantly less linting and they're softer. The plush towels are still linting like crazy, though. They're goners. So to finish up the polish and wax job, it looks like I'm going to have to very carefully use the great white drying towels to buff. Wish me luck.

[Junkman2008]

VERY well said man. From someone with limited contact with you, but lots of observation in my time here, I gather the last paragraph as gold. You kill it man!

 

[Eidolon]

Maybe catch a daily special.

I shall be doing exactly this. I have been wanting to pick up a junk towel or two, as well. Guess now I have an excuse for a shopping cart full of towels!

[THE Mook]

My advice has one major concern in mind.

 

COST.

 

Let's face it, all of us are not dripping money bags so when you decide to actually dive into detailing at this level, it is a major investment. Thus, you want to do things that not only make your investment last, but that also gives you as much use out of the things you purchase. That's the main mindset I have when dealing with this stuff because I have been where the guy or gal who is just getting into it is at. I've looked at the cost of a kit and had to justify the cost. It's a major investment and because of that, I don't want to see a person wasting their hard earned investment.

 

Most of what I go by is common sense. If you think about my advice, everything has a logical reason. That's the way I work. If there is no logic behind something or someone can't explain it on a 10 year old level, then they don't understand it themselves and I either will not do it or I will seek understanding from someone else. I am big time this way when it comes to money. Common sense and Dave Ramsey rule my money trigger.

 

 

VERY well said man. From someone with limited contact with you, but lots of observation in my time here, I gather the last paragraph as gold. You kill it man!

[Junkman2008]

My advice has one major concern in mind.

 

COST.

 

Let's face it, all of us are not dripping money bags so when you decide to actually dive into detailing at this level, it is a major investment. Thus, you want to do things that not only make your investment last, but that also gives you as much use out of the things you purchase. That's the main mindset I have when dealing with this stuff because I have been where the guy or gal who is just getting into it is at. I've looked at the cost of a kit and had to justify the cost. It's a major investment and because of that, I don't want to see a person wasting their hard earned investment.

 

Most of what I go by is common sense. If you think about my advice, everything has a logical reason. That's the way I work. If there is no logic behind something or someone can't explain it on a 10 year old level, then they don't understand it themselves and I either will not do it or I will seek understanding from someone else. I am big time this way when it comes to money. Common sense and Dave Ramsey rule my money trigger.

[musclejunkie]

OMG, reading all this has got me terrified to ever use a PC or Flex on my car before attending a "hands-on" Junkman Detailing seminar or Adam's official School of Detailing. To sum up what I have read and the problems I see from my simpleton mind, stem from just a couple of issues....

 

1. Too much synthetic product to begin with and on the second coat, covering a first coat that has not been completely removed making it impossible to correct the unremoved product and dusting "under the second coat".

 

2. Your MF is toast. As Junkman has so clearly and eloquently stated, never wash a specific MF towel with a different one, wash mitt or anything else. The wash mitt probably had dirt that ended up getting into the MF. Also, ONLY air dry MF towels in a clean environment and ONLY till they are dry, then immediately place in zip-lock bags or covered containers. A dirty dust filled garage is not a "clean environment". Here's how we run @ the Musclejunkie house.....after each use, MF is washed on gentle cycle with a couple squirts of Dawn, then air dried on a hanger in my house and then into a zip-lock bag. I have -0- linting issues even on waffle weave after a year. My drying MF occasionally gets a spot or two from a less than Junkman quality car wash and come out perfect and spotless using this method.

 

3. Stick with Adam's products using the least intrusive product first. Looks like FMP didn't remove that deep scratch in the photo OR the other circular micro scratches you are mentioning. So, grab some SHR and redo that area and proceed with FMP.

 

4. NEVER wax or seal a car that is less than perfect to begin with. You can't remove problems under a wax or sealant with DS, clay, Dawn or anything else. It makes for more work, stripping the car again and starting from scratch.

 

5. Thanks for posting this. Sometimes problems others have and the great advice from the master detailers help us all.

[mason44]

I do, I don't think I have missed an updated daily special since joining this forum.

[Eidolon]

I suppose I should here mention that my frustration stems from the fact that I know there's a right way to do this, and I just haven't found it yet. The products are performing as they should. I ain't!

 

Right now I think the problem is that fact that you didn't do a wipe down after the first coat cured and immediately prior to putting the second coat on.

 

 

I also think you might be using way too much product.

 

Right, so I might be waxing over top of gathered product. I've thought about that as well, though I rather figured that the second waxing itself would serve as a second buffing since I'm moving the pad over the paint. I guess not.

 

As for how much product I use, I'd typically put three or four dime-sized squirts of MSW on the pad per panel, then move it across quickly to just leave a haze on the surface. I wasn't trying to leave a thick coat.

 

Kevin, I would use more DS if needed to remove leftover residue. And when you stop your pc keep it moving until it comes to a complete stop.That will keep you from getting a bunch of product in one spot.

DS is what I'm using, and I'm about to boil my plush towels. We'll see how they do.

 

For the PC, that's typically exactly what I do: let it spin down and keep it moving until I lift. On the C pillars, though, there's still some spots running up them just from the pad itself. Ditto for the hood. Not sure why.

 

I noticed during this particular polish/waxcapade that I was having to use a LOT more DS to buff the polish and wax off after I'd used them. I'm wondering if I needed to be using more DS during application. Quartz halogens shined on the car to illuminate things heats up the panels, which causes the DS to evaporate more quickly, which means things get dryer and thicker more quickly. There were a few places where I found it impossible to get out all the scratches if I didn't use sufficient DS on the pad.

[Junkman2008]

As I preach and preach again, perfect the process in one spot on the car before moving to the entire car. If you can't get one spot right, you ain't gonna get the rest of the car right. Moving on to the rest of the car just creates more work for you to fix and you end up wasting expensive product.

 

Bill is dead on. You are definitely using too much MSW and/or not allowing it to completely dry. MSW is a sealant and all sealants must be applied in thin layers. You should also stick with just applying 1 coat as layering waxes takes practice and know how. Don't set yourself up for failure by trying to do too much and making it more complicated than it actually is.

 

You are too eager to see the results of your labor and not allowing the results to come. If you have never done this before, you are not going to pop out a showroom shine the very first time you do this. There is a learning curve, albeit small if you watch my videos on paint correction because I go into a lot of detail.

 

If I were you, I would start with a flat, level surface like the trunk, strip it and do the entire process again on JUST the trunk. Until you get that trunk the way you want it, I wouldn't touch the rest of the car. I have worked on the trunk of a G8 and the paint can be fixed to perfection. They have good paint on them and are not a bear to fix like the Corvette paint is. Watch this video series. You need to follow it to the letter.

 

 

 

 

[Eidolon]

Pictures are always a great way to get the message across

Yeeeah. Sorry this has been more of a rant than a request for help. I edited my previous post and toned it down a little.

 

You're right, though. It's gonna take some re-polishing to get it right again. Shucks!

 

As for the towels, I boiled them each for a few minutes and then tried drying them on low in the dryer until they were just damp. It still seems they're shedding somewhat. They're less than a year old, though, so they shouldn't be past their prime yet, should they? Any additional tips?

[Bill-V8V]

Pictures are always a great way to get the message across

[Eidolon]

I come bearing pictures.

 

The wax buildup:

 

Annnd my sad attempt to remove it:

 

You have a few options now, you can clay or polish out those spots and then just put a single coat over those spots until you are ready to do your next full detail.

 

I think I'm gonna let the DS sit and try a few times more before I resort to the re-polishing.

 

Or you can strip it all down and start from scratch

 

And the reason for the above is your suggestion here. I spent a good 15 hours or more trying to polish out every scratch. Here's hoping it doesn't take another polishing!

[Bill-V8V]

And I think that is why you are getting the bad "spots" it is the residue trapped under that second coat.

 

You have a few options now, you can clay or polish out those spots and then just put a single coat over those spots until you are ready to do your next full detail. Or you can strip it all down and start from scratch

[Eidolon]

The problem here is that when you put the first coat of MSW on you need to wait for it to haze over and wipe it down. THEN wait 12 to 24 hours for it to fully cure and wipe again, it is a sealent not a wax.

I actually did do this. I waited 20 minutes before the wipe down, and then the instructions mention wait 12 hours and wipe again, using any DS to get off excess. I actually did skip the wiping down, though, believing that if I got enough off on the first go around, I was fine.

 

Much too much product, one dime size squirt should be more than enough to do your hood.

 

When it comes to MSW less is more, you want a thin even coat!

 

 

Then this is likely my problem. Just too much! The further I went, the less I used, since the pad was saturated and I needed less to keep the coat up. In retrospect, not a good thing.

[Chris@Adams]

Three or Four dime sized spots PER PANEL?? I think one of your issues may be that your pad is getting saturated with product. I'll usually do a thin X or a thin ring around the pad to help spread it out, but don't use anywhere near that much.

 

The heat from the lights probably aren't helping but they shouldn't be that close to begin with.

 

- Darryl

When it comes to MSW less is more, you want a thin even coat!

[Bill-V8V]

I suppose I should here mention that my frustration stems from the fact that I know there's a right way to do this, and I just haven't found it yet. The products are performing as they should. I ain't!

 

You are at the right place, we will get you where you want to be

 

 

 

Right, so I might be waxing over top of gathered product. I've thought about that as well, though I rather figured that the second waxing itself would serve as a second buffing since I'm moving the pad over the paint. I guess not.

 

The problem here is that when you put the first coat of MSW on you need to wait for it to haze over and wipe it down. THEN wait 12 to 24 hours for it to fully cure and wipe again, it is a sealent not a wax.

 

Then you are ready for another coat. When that second coat hazes over wipe again and wait 12 to 24 hours and wipe again. I think 2 coats is over kill myself but others like doing it that way.

 

As for how much product I use, I'd typically put three or four dime-sized squirts of MSW on the pad per panel, then move it across quickly to just leave a haze on the surface. I wasn't trying to leave a thick coat.

 

Much too much product, one dime size squirt should be more than enough to do your hood.

[Odds and Ends]

Three or Four dime sized spots PER PANEL?? I think one of your issues may be that your pad is getting saturated with product. I'll usually do a thin X or a thin ring around the pad to help spread it out, but don't use anywhere near that much.

 

The heat from the lights probably aren't helping but they shouldn't be that close to begin with.

 

- Darryl

[Bill-V8V]

Yeeeah. Sorry this has been more of a rant than a request for help. I edited my previous post and toned it down a little.

 

You're right, though. It's gonna take some re-polishing to get it right again. Shucks!

 

As for the towels, I boiled them each for a few minutes and then tried drying them on low in the dryer until they were just damp. It still seems they're shedding somewhat. They're less than a year old, though, so they shouldn't be past their prime yet, should they? Any additional tips?

 

 

No need to be sorry, I didn't see it as a rant at all

 

All good advice from the Junkman, what polishes do you have ?