Speeding ticket - help?

[savi01]

Hey guys,

 

On my way back from school today I got pulled over by CHP, along with the car in front of me. It's a single-lane stretch of the highway, and the only cars traveling in my lane were me and a white Corolla in front of me, by about 5 car spaces. We were driving along when a CHP officer drove by the car in front of me and quickly made a U-turn. By the time I passed the officer, he was already slowing down on the side of the road. After he made the U-turn, and put his lights on, I pulled over to let him pass. Instead, he tells me to pull up behind him.

 

He goes on to pull over the car in front, and I pull up behind him on the side of the road. He then gives me a speeding ticket?! Claims the white Corolla was going 76, and when I asked how fast I was going he said I was also going 76, which is complete BS because after my first ticket a few years ago I never go past 5-over the limit, plus I had my sister and her friend with me and I don't take stupid risks. I told the officer that is not true and I was so far behind that car, he replied "You were travelling with that car." Does that even make sense? I was travelling with everyone on the road, is he going to ticket everyone?!

 

I feel like since me and the other car were pretty much alone on the road he just ticketed us both. He had a smirk on his face as I signed the ticket too. I'm planning on fighting the ticket, but I don't have any experience in this, but I do know it's my word vs. the officers and I probably can never win that.

 

I was having a long, difficult day and he just ruined it even further. Sorry for the long post, but I needed to vent, and I need some honest tips/help. I can't really afford a lawyer.. any ideas as to what I should do? Fight it and hope he doesn't appear in court?

 

[Bigredmariner]

So were you doing the posted speed limit?

[savi01]

I was going 68-69 on the 65 limit. Yeah "technically" it's not the posted limit, but it's also not 76 as the officer claimed. I usually use cruise control when the road is that empty at 68, but we had just passed up stop lights, and I had turned it off before passing them just in case. I travel that road each and every day, and have been for the past 3 years, never been pulled over speeding before, I know there are tons of officers hidden along the sides.

 

I'm just angry at the fact that he's taking the other cars speed and saying it was the same for me, and I feel so helpless as proving otherwise.

[02Xtreme07ss]

Do some research on 'Trial by Written Declaration' in CA. It is your legal right to use it to defend yourself. Essentially you can write your own defense and it will be reviewed by the court. If the officer does not offer a rebuttle or does not write it within the specified timeframe, which he is required to do, your charge will be dropped or reduced and your fine refunded (dropped) or partially refunded (reduced). If he does write a rebuttle and the court finds you guity as charged, you can request a formal court appearance and argue your case a second time. The only caveat to this is that you must pay the fine when you enter your 'trial by declaration' and you may not be eligible for a reduction in your penalty of you end up arguing your case in court. You more or less get two chances to beat your ticket this way.

 

Pay close attention to articles on how to write a successful declaration. It must be fact based and logical. There is no room for emotion or assumption.

 

On a side note, NEVER try to argue your case on the roadside. At the very least, you just made yourself memorable to the officer. If he took good notes and you try the written declaration or even in court, he will have more information to remember everything about the stop. You want to be forgettable in these instances. The courtroom is for arguments, not the roadside.

Edited September 11, 2012 by 02Xtreme07ss

[the1inblue]

Sounds like me he has no evidence of you speeding...

 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Marylander]

Do some research on 'Trial by Written Declaration' in CA. It is your legal right to use it to defend yourself. Essentially you can write your own defense and it will be reviewed by the court. If the officer does not offer a rebuttle or does not write it within the specified timeframe, which he is required to do, your charge will be dropped or reduced and your fine refunded (dropped) or partially refunded (reduced). If he does write a rebuttle and the court finds you guity as charged, you can request a formal court appearance and argue your case a second time. The only caveat to this is that you must pay the fine when you enter your 'trial by declaration' and you may not be eligible for a reduction in your penalty of you end up arguing your case in court. You more or less get two chances to beat your ticket this way.

 

Pay close attention to articles on how to write a successful declaration. It must be fact based and logical. There is no room for emotion or assumption.

 

On a side note, NEVER try to argue your case on the roadside. At the very least, you just made yourself memorable to the officer. If he took good notes and you try the written declaration or even in court, he will have more information to remember everything about the stop. You want to be forgettable in these instances. The courtroom is for arguments, not the roadside.

 

Awesome advice.

[jwright0291]

What they said^

Or maybe..

Just get it dropped to court supervision, pay a little money and your record stays clean.

[GXPaycheck]

Let a lawyer deal with it.

[Kenneth]

Here in TX the police go to a training class that they learn how to see a car and know how fast they are going. I got pulle over one time by a officer that was out of his car and he gave me a ticket for 7 over lol. I was like this is BS and tried to fight it. The officer produced a certificate of training and I got the ticket. We never win against the police lol.

[colodude18]

If I'm understanding correctly, the officer was traveling in the opposite direction, then turned around and came after the both of you.

If this is correct, and assuming he determined the white car's speed with radar, there is (a) no way he could have measured your speed since the radar gun would have registered the white car that was closer to him and potentially even blocking your car from view, and ( no way to visually determine whether your speed was even similar to the white car's, since travelling in the opposite direction, it would have been impossible for him to determine a ~7 mile speed difference between two oncoming cars.

 

If it comes down to your word against his, you'll lose every time, but if you can create enough doubt in the judge's mind about whether the officer could have reasonably been able to accurately determine your speed, your chances of being cleared are much greater.

 

Good luck and keep us posted!

[savi01]

If I'm understanding correctly, the officer was traveling in the opposite direction, then turned around and came after the both of you.

If this is correct, and assuming he determined the white car's speed with radar, there is (a) no way he could have measured your speed since the radar gun would have registered the white car that was closer to him and potentially even blocking your car from view, and ( no way to visually determine whether your speed was even similar to the white car's, since travelling in the opposite direction, it would have been impossible for him to determine a ~7 mile speed difference between two oncoming cars.!

 

That is exactly what happened and how I feel, however, as mentioned it is my word against the officers, and I just feel like the Judge won't care about what I say at all. I know that the officer could not have measured my speed, but I have no way of presenting that in a factual manner w/ evidence.

 

Thanks for all the advice guys. The court date is in a month from now so I'll go over all my options until then. Hopefully this gets dropped

[Fat Mike]

How was your speed clocked?

 

While I'm not a Law Enforcement Officer, a good friend of mine is the training officer for the local PD. If the officer who ticketed you was using a laser device to record your speed, he was very capable of measuring your speed even with the other car in close proximity. Whether he did or not is another story and subject to his word against yours.

 

IMHO, you will have a tough time winning this one. You may want to consider speaking with the district / county attorney - whoever prosecutes speeding cases in your area. You may be able to get the speed reduced or potentially even dropped.

 

Good luck!

[Feets31]

Do they have a diversion program in the county where you got the ticket? It will cost you a little more than the ticket, but the charge would dissappear in 6 months with no additional infractions.

[savi01]

My options would be to fight it, and hope the officer doesn't show up in court, it would then be dismissed. If he does show up, I'm SOL. In that case, I'd have to pay the fine, plus another $50 to be able to take a traffic school class (which costs even more) to keep the points off my record.

 

I do not know how the officer recorded my speed. But in the maneuver he pulled to quickly turn his car around after clocking the car in front of me, I doubt he actually clocked me. After turning around he followed me for about 10 seconds before actually turning on his lights. Thinking of if he should pull us over both?

 

I don't know. I don't really have anything in general towards cops, but I just think this one was BS'ing and I can't do anything about it.

[Adam]

Savi, I earned about 20 of the 30 moving violations that I received from age 16 to 30, and all were in California. I fought all that were unreasonable, and about half of those, the officer didn't show up, and I was able to, "write off" my driving record.

 

Still, I've found that in America, it's always best to fight for your rights! Keep this country great, and even if you don't win, it's worth the effort to fight.

 

I've got friends in every section of law enforcement. They would agree with my advice!

 

[02Xtreme07ss]

My options would be to fight it, and hope the officer doesn't show up in court, it would then be dismissed. If he does show up, I'm SOL. In that case, I'd have to pay the fine, plus another $50 to be able to take a traffic school class (which costs even more) to keep the points off my record.

 

I do not know how the officer recorded my speed. But in the maneuver he pulled to quickly turn his car around after clocking the car in front of me, I doubt he actually clocked me. After turning around he followed me for about 10 seconds before actually turning on his lights. Thinking of if he should pull us over both?

 

I don't know. I don't really have anything in general towards cops, but I just think this one was BS'ing and I can't do anything about it.

 

You still have some options available to you that don't necessarily require a court appearance for you to 'win' this case. At the very least, you get one free shot at getting your charges dismissed via Trial by Written Declaration. Regardless of the courts findings as a result of your petition, you can then file for a Trial De Novo, a new trial in court. The officer has no incentive to write a rebuttle to your defense, he is not paid for any additional time required to prepare his response, but he is paid to show up in court. He receives no penalty for not responding either. You have plenty of time to research this and prepare a defense either way. Simply giving up and accepting this isn't going to solve your problem. Arm yourself with some knowledge and then move forward. Unfortunately there is no simple solution in CA. Good luck.

[savi01]

Thank you guys for all your help and advice, I really appreciate it! I'm extremely busy for a couple weeks with school, but soon as I get some free time I might try the Trial by Written Dec., but as Adam and everyone else has advised I will try my best at fighting the ticket.

 

Thanks again guys, and I'll keep you all posted!

[Redbeard]

You should've cried or showed some cleavage.

[xkwj43z]

Getting a ticket for 5mph over is something I would fight I'm going into law enforcement and would not write a ticket for that. Request the readout of your speed being locked on radar, also you could ask to see proof of the last time his radar was calibrated. That will def. give you leverage when fighting it.

[Kenneth]

I really don't think the radar calibration is going matter or having a radar period. I'm almost willing to bet the officer has training on using his vision to calibrate speed. I know it sounds crazy but all he has to do is provide his certificate of completion and your guilty.

 

Am I the only one who has heard of this? Making me sound crazy I swear it happened to me lol.

[xkwj43z]

Yes officers, especially troopers can visually calibrate your speed, still something just doesnt sound right in this story.

[colodude18]

Arm yourself with some knowledge and then move forward. Unfortunately there is no simple solution in CA.

 

At least in CA you have some options. In my state, the officer doesn't even have to show up in court, it is handled by the court system. You can either take the plea bargain they offer you right before the court hearing (typically lower points but not a lower fine) or you can go against the judge and almost certainly lose. We also don't have the Trial By Declaration (TBD) process in Colorado.

 

I heard that in CA through the TBD process you may be able to successfully claim that the speed you were driving was "not too fast for conditions". (see link below for a detailed description of procedure and several draft letters)

I'd fight it either way, I believe you can raise enough doubt for them to reconsider.

 

DIY: use trial by declaration if you get a ticket! - Cobalt SS Network

[savi01]

Hey guys, just an update:

 

So I had my traffic court hearing today.

 

Waited for two hours before finally being called up in front of the Commissioner who kept acting as if he was about to die doing his job - would love to see him do a job outside of an air conditioned room where you're treated like God.

 

Anyways -- so the Officer gave his statement, after which I had the chance to ask him any questions. I asked him if he remembered that there was a semi truck in front of him, blocking me from his view. Officer replied that he did not recall. I asked if he remembered that by the time he passed me headed in the opposite direction, that he was already in the process of making his U-turn. Officer replied that he did not recall. I asked if he remembered that when I asked how fast I was going, his reply was that "You were traveling with the car in front of you, and his speed was 76, therefore yours was the same". Officer replied that he did not recall.

 

The Officer was traveling in the opposite lane at the time that me and the car in front of me were pulled over. However, in his statement the Officer claimed that he was pulled over on the side of the road with his radar on. Completely lied. When I was giving my statement though, the commissioner wasn't paying attention at all, and was talking to the aid on his side. After I was done, the Commissioner declared me guilty without an explanation other than that the Officer had you on radar (When I was cited the officer himself said that I wasn't on his radar but I was traveling with the car that was in front of me).

 

So they took $300 from me.

 

To say I'm frustrated with the "system" at this moment is a huge understatement. The Officer didn't have any more evidence than I did; our statements. Yet I was disrespected and not given a c**p about. My clear record and explanation of the events meant nothing. Unbelievable that a sworn Officer could just lie, give a little statement of how he is certified on using his radar (in 1992!) and that's it. I thought HE had to PROVE that I was guilty?!

 

Anyone know who I could contact for this? I feel like we don't speak out enough about such events, and we are being taken advantage of all the time with bogus citations.

[02Xtreme07ss]

Sorry to hear about the outcome, but at this point you pay the fine and move on. This isn't a criminal case, so they are no obligated to prove you are guilty. Quite the contrary, you are required to prove you are not guilty.

 

I hope this doesn't happen to you again, but if it does, it's in your best interest to first attempt the trial by written declaration. If that fails, then you still have another opportunity to fight it in court, from square one.

[billawd]

The criminal justice system is all messed up you have to prove your not guilty.