concentrated claybar lube

[mikeg6045]

As a longtime Adams polish's customer, I wanted to slip in a suggestion I have for a product.

 

A dedicated concentrated claybar lube.

 

Imo, the detail spray works fantastic as a claybar lube, but it's just too vital of a resource to waste the amount needed for proper claybarring of a car.

 

The new trend in the industry is moving towards a product like this, or one with multi-tasks. That comes in a concentrated form.

 

imo here are the pro's and con's of something like this-

 

benefit's

-dedicated chemical for single use save's money on both ends (ie: no gloss enhancers or protective coating)

-concentrated products come in smaller bottles for cheaper shipping

-no more wasting a 40 $ bottle of extremely effective detail spray for the job (most importantly)

 

negative's

-its important to use distilled water with any concentrated product

-proper dilution rate is important to be effective (more is not better in situations like this)

-another product added to the lineup for which one already exists that is effective. overlapping products are confusing for new and simple minded customers. (but i personally think the cost you will save offsets this)

 

 

thoughts ?

[b_pappy]

You are correct you go through a lot of lube when claying. You can also use the Waterless Car Wash as a lube for claying. I have also diluted Detail Spray up to 50% with distilled water for use when claying. I have had good success with both of these techniques.

Bruce

[Team Adam's]

We've entertained the idea of concentrates, but the realization that many customers won't use distilled water in mixing creates the potential for problems. While a concentrate might play well for some brands we're one of the few in the market aimed more at the enthusiast user than anything else.

 

Thats not to say we won't ever, but the idea of multiple products like this has come up with the one hurdle being the end users ability/willingness to mix properly.

[BespokeCar]

You could offer both RTU and Concentrate.

[Team Adam's]

Yep, and thats been the discussion, but then theres a whole new world of bottling and logistics that needs to happen. Again, not an idea thats off the table, but since we're aimed almost 100% at enthusiast users and no so much the pro or pro-sumer level we're not ready to take that leap yet.

[BespokeCar]

I understand Dylan. However distilled water is easy to find, and customers might find value in a concentrate. Might be cheaper to ship than 5 gallons of detail spray too.

 

Logistics is a matter I know nothing about, so I'm sure that is also a huge part.

[Team Adam's]

I understand Dylan. However distilled water is easy to find, and customers might find value in a concentrate.

 

While you'd think so we went thru this in our APC reformulation. We shipped concentrate with specific directions to some random customers.... half of them mixed it right... the other half either mixed with tap or didn't know where to get distilled water from. I know... scary... but these people exist, they walk among us!!

[Captain Slow]

while you'd think so we went thru this in our apc reformulation. We shipped concentrate with specific directions to some random customers.... Half of them mixed it right... The other half either mixed with tap or didn't know where to get distilled water from. I know... Scary... But these people exist, they walk among us!!

 

[Chris@Adams]

The DS is a mainstay that every Adam's user has on hand and it works so well as a lube.I don't think customers would buy a concentrated lube when they already have DS. IMHO!

[Sandra Dee]

The DS is a mainstay that every Adam's user has on hand and it works so well as a lube.I don't think customers would buy a concentrated lube when they already have DS. IMHO!

i agree-and i am addicted to the smell of DS. i have to think about what is easy since i work FT-having to buy distilled water as well would not be worth the hassle. I would not use tap water. I am just the average joe-esphine who details their own vehicles and friends when i can fit it in. just my most humble 2 cents.

[EdH63]

Using DS, or any type of product from any vendor like this, is unnecessary to clay the car down. All you need is a lubricant for the surface and that can be accomplished with water for that matter.

 

While in the wash bay stage, simply use your clay through the soap before rinsing the car down. You've clayed the car in the wash bay now, eliminated a step in the dry bay and will save a ton of DS for other uses. Again, you DO NOT need DS to clay the car down. Does DS work well with clay? Yes. So does every other vendor's DS and this is how they advertise to use the clay; in conjunction with DS as a lubricant. It works nicely, of course, and sells a butt load of DS for the retailer. However, I've clayed cars with water and gotten the same results.

 

Trust me, do it the way I'm suggesting and you'll save a butt load of DS... it works.

[Team Adam's]

Water only doesn't offer sufficient lubrication... soap and water yes, but how much becomes the question. Effective claying needs enough 'slippery-ness' to allow the clay to glide along, but not so slippery that it can't make sufficient contact.

 

This is the specific reason I don't recommend waterless wash as a clay lube... too slippery.

 

Water alone isn't slick enough IMO, and while you can do it with soap and water striking that balance can be the hard part.

[Kingsford]

I dont know about this one. I always keep 1 full gallon of DS and WW on hand because those are the 2 that I use the most. When I run out of 1 gallon and pop the next one open I order a new gallon.

 

That being said and me not having to clay my car every month I wouldn't really see a purpose in buying yet another product that one product already does.

 

I also don't know where you got $40 a bottle. DS is only $12.95 a bottle and $39.95 a gallon (8 Bottles @ $4.99). Plus FedEx usually charges by Box Size AND/OR Weight. Smaller bottle means you go through it quicker and will have to reorder sooner.

[w0lfy]

:jester:hmmmm, the thing i see as a disadvantage of using water /soap as lub is several, 1) you would have to get residue off car faster! 2) you probably shouldn't directly polish over soap and water lub, like you can wit DS..... Many other problems i could think of but then so can most of you so i not list lol.

 

Now while you (thread author) are right the trend in industry is going toward a concentrated clay lube; We'll one thing i like about Adams is they truly are a premium car care company producing superior products...... as such they may not follow trends like others, which is only right for a top notch company.

 

Lol i find the concentrates of great interest as a detailer, but understand Adams customer base is not geared fully for commercial sectors (as yet). But the superior products produce superior results which will keep cash in my pockets and others customers coming to me

 

***i would think the water may detract from clay life span also**

[EdH63]

It comes down to "it's your money". Assuming one procedure over another gives certain results can be an expensive way to achieve results. However, data, or actually testing and experimenting for those results can lead to a better understanding of not only what your product line actually does, but what your personal abilities are too.

 

Knowing viscus tolerances as it relates to how slippery or not the surface gets with soap or silicon based detail sprays is something you'd need to actually have data to reveal. But, I can tell you from experience from doing many many details the way I've described vs. clay with detail spray, the results are the same and no residual particulate is lesser or greater after the treatment to the paint. In other words, just as much debris is removed from the paint with car wash soap and water as by using detail spray and clay.

 

Because it is my money, I learned a long time ago that the shortcuts I find and/or create to get from point "A" to point "B" can save me time and money, so detail spray and clay are not a necessity to me as a solution. Each have a purpose, but both are not part of the steps cumulatively for the solution. If you're claying a car then you will be waxing and/or polishing the car afterwards. Any residual left over from the clay treatment in the washbay will be brought off by those refurbishing steps.

 

I'm not trying to reduce DS sales, but I am trying to help you understand that one is not necessarily dependent on the other to achieve the same result. In the end, it's your money. I do love the DS that Adam's sells, but I'm not going to use a product that sells for a premium price often in a place I don't need to when I can achieve the same results for less with a more cost effective method.

 

My recommendation would be to try some different techniques and methods. See what you think and the results you come up with. If in the end you decide that you must have DS to use with your clay, then by all means have at it. But in the event you find that you don't need it, you then can buy up more DS and watch it last longer.

 

I'll tell ya, I love this Adam's DS, and my wife loves it when I'm using it in the garage and she comes out there to watch me. I will not waste such a nice product on the clay. I take the clay to the car wash with me and nail that step in the bay.

 

YMMV

[w0lfy]

well yeah, do what is right for you , but here's the thing i been detailing for 12 years as a profession and have learned many things and used MANY products.

 

when you are working on customers cars "shortcuts" really equate to lower quality results as well as a negative reputation among customers!

 

As a detailer who dose this for a living..... I ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO MEET OTHER DETAILERS WHO HAVE YOUR SAME APPROACH..... as I tend to gain clients because of their lack of detail and inferior results.

 

As junkman says.... "yo shine want be as good as my shine".....

 

 

*tip** Dylan as a product tester/developer actualy has the data lol

 

I also doubt DS sales would really decrease becuase of yer endorsment of "soap and water lube"

 

 

BESIDES YOU KNOW YOU WOULD RATHER SMELL THE DS WHILE CLAYING I MEAN COMMON WHO WOULDN'T :lol:

[Mato]

I've used Adams Soap and Water for Clay lube in a pinch before and had no problems with it. Would I use it for lube on a Black Ferrari? No, but if you are in a pinch it does work!

[EdH63]

well yeah, do what is right for you , but here's the thing i been detailing for 12 years as a profession and have learned many things and used MANY products.

 

when you are working on customers cars "shortcuts" really equate to lower quality results as well as a negative reputation among customers!

 

As a detailer who dose this for a living..... I ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO MEET OTHER DETAILERS WHO HAVE YOUR SAME APPROACH..... as I tend to gain clients because of their lack of detail and inferior results.

 

As junkman says.... "yo shine want be as good as my shine".....

 

 

*tip** Dylan as a product tester/developer actualy has the data lol

 

I also doubt DS sales would really decrease becuase of yer endorsment of "soap and water lube"

 

 

BESIDES YOU KNOW YOU WOULD RATHER SMELL THE DS WHILE CLAYING I MEAN COMMON WHO WOULDN'T :lol:

 

I'm not so quick to drink the coolaid as you are, and my decision to utilize something like this is not based on feel good and how great it smells. If I had allowed myself to operate that way, I'd been broke a long time ago. I base my efforts, processes and applications on what makes sense and gives me maximum results the fastest. Shortcut isn't a dirty word. If I can get the same result as you in a faster time set because I took the time to be innovative, why wouldn't I do that. I don't want to spend any more time than I need on a project. That's called smart. If I can sell your detail for the same money to your customer and spend less time and use less product, getting the same result, why wouldn't I want to do that?

[mikeg6045]

Dylan,

 

Thanks for you input on the subject. I appreciate that you replied in the thread without putting a definitive yes or no on the suggestion.

 

Suggestions threads, imo, are just that, suggestions. I am not looking for you to go make a product like this right now, because a guy like me said so. I think its important for you guys to keep tabs on how your customers feel about what they buy. And you do a good job of this. Which is why i made the thread in the first place.

 

FFkingsford, why try to suggest that I am "far out" for typing that it cost me 40 dollars for a bottle of detail spray, when you just prove the face for me in the next sentence of your own post. by stating that it cost 39.95 for the gallon. Using common sense, one would likely imagine i'm talking about the gallon bottle when I state 40 $ a bottle.

 

EdH63, thank you for thinking out of the box along with me in this thread. While I personally would not use just water. if you plan to polish the car out after claying, than its not so much to worry about. but if not, the clay will and can cause a lot of marring of the paint on softer clearcoats if you just use water. carwash soap would be a good imbetween, which a lot of people use.

 

I also appreciate the fact of pointing out that theres no need for everyone to drink the cool aid. I feel that many users on this site sadly drink the cool aid way too much, without realizing that a site like this is set up by the company to gather input on how they feel. So for someone to constantly put down any advice that does not fit the product line or instructions completely negates the reason for a discussion forum (especially one that is setup directly from the company for there customers). I'm very glad that there are guys like Dylan who are always willing to hear this stuff out, and its important that he always leaves off by saying that nothing is set in stone and in the future theres always room for improvement or change.

 

I would also like people to understand that concentrated products are NOT for someone who details cars for a living. They benefit the weekend warrior very much. In the end, you simply save money everywhere. I never liked the idea of something concentrated myself either. That was until I tested out an entire product line that is based around concentrated products.

 

Unfortunately I had a verrrrry strong hunch that the reason Adams has avoided these products is because of user error. And I was right that it was the very same reasons I posted in my Con's (negatives) list. Proper dillution, and distilled water.

[mikeg6045]

:jester:hmmmm, the thing i see as a disadvantage of using water /soap as lub is several, 1) you would have to get residue off car faster! 2) you probably shouldn't directly polish over soap and water lub, like you can wit DS..... Many other problems i could think of but then so can most of you so i not list lol.

 

Now while you (thread author) are right the trend in industry is going toward a concentrated clay lube; We'll one thing i like about Adams is they truly are a premium car care company producing superior products...... as such they may not follow trends like others, which is only right for a top notch company.

 

Lol i find the concentrates of great interest as a detailer, but understand Adams customer base is not geared fully for commercial sectors (as yet). But the superior products produce superior results which will keep cash in my pockets and others customers coming to me

 

***i would think the water may detract from clay life span also**

 

If you really have been detailing customers cars for 12 years, I have no idea why you would be closed minded.

 

I maintain 5 cars on a regular basis. And use a lot of products.

 

I'm confident that I somewhat understand Adams philosophy on his product's and company. And to say that he does not follow trends in this industry is ,imo grossly wrong. I have been a customer of Adams liquid products since the detail spray was red (a long time), and He and his company do keep there eyes and ears on the industry and trends. trust me.

 

The reality is that I no longer use Adams Detail Spray to clay cars. I do not like wasting so much product doing so. When there are much cheaper and simpler products out there to get this job done effectively. I'm paying for all my products out of my own pocket. Nothing is free or discounted. I am using a concentrated muti task product for this job. The product i'm using needs 2 ounces of concentrate to make a 1 gallon size bottle of claybar lube. The concentrate container is 32oz's. I can make 16 gallons of claybar lube from one bottle of concentrate.

[EdH63]

If you really have been detailing customers cars for 12 years, I have no idea why you would be closed minded.

 

I maintain 5 cars on a regular basis. And use a lot of products.

 

I'm confident that I somewhat understand Adams philosophy on his product's and company. And to say that he does not follow trends in this industry is ,imo grossly wrong. I have been a customer of Adams liquid products since the detail spray was red (a long time), and He and his company do keep there eyes and ears on the industry and trends. trust me.

 

The reality is that I no longer use Adams Detail Spray to clay cars. I do not like wasting so much product doing so. When there are much cheaper and simpler products out there to get this job done effectively. I'm paying for all my products out of my own pocket. Nothing is free or discounted. I am using a concentrated muti task product for this job. The product i'm using needs 2 ounces of concentrate to make a 1 gallon size bottle of claybar lube. The concentrate container is 32oz's. I can make 16 gallons of claybar lube from one bottle of concentrate.

 

I think you bring up a good point to really always consider (and I,too, appreciate Dylan's willingness to allow these types of conversations to finish through the thought). Always keep an open mind and always be willing to listen. I think Adam's is spot on with the way they cater to and facilitate their servicing via this venue. I am always impressed when I come to read what is happening here and see the conversations going on.

 

However, this is Adam's and it will always be weighted a little to sell Adam's products, but this is done with integrity here and it surely is not a sideshow act you find in other places. I've been in this business a very long time and have seen just about everything you can imagine on the vendor's side of this business, and Adam's has a very good handle on how to market, speak and service their products and training. It's a nice little clean piece of Heaven that this industry has really always needed.

 

For viewers that may be new, and for those that are just down right Adam's fan boys (nothing wrong with that ), don't let influence outweigh the common sense and logic of the purchase and the job. There is much to hang your hat on here, in these forums, but keep in mind that there are always different ways to get the same results. Adam's gives the right path all the time, but they also sell a product that tags that process (I'm speaking into clay and DS specifically here). I find all the suggestions in technique and product knowledge are typically spot on. But, because I don't necessarily agree 100% with something, that doesn't mean it's wrong. I guess what I'm saying is too be careful you don't lose your sense of identity in another's reality.

[EdH63]

Dylan,

 

Thanks for you input on the subject. I appreciate that you replied in the thread without putting a definitive yes or no on the suggestion.

 

Suggestions threads, imo, are just that, suggestions. I am not looking for you to go make a product like this right now, because a guy like me said so. I think its important for you guys to keep tabs on how your customers feel about what they buy. And you do a good job of this. Which is why i made the thread in the first place.

 

FFkingsford, why try to suggest that I am "far out" for typing that it cost me 40 dollars for a bottle of detail spray, when you just prove the face for me in the next sentence of your own post. by stating that it cost 39.95 for the gallon. Using common sense, one would likely imagine i'm talking about the gallon bottle when I state 40 $ a bottle.

 

EdH63, thank you for thinking out of the box along with me in this thread. While I personally would not use just water. if you plan to polish the car out after claying, than its not so much to worry about. but if not, the clay will and can cause a lot of marring of the paint on softer clearcoats if you just use water. carwash soap would be a good imbetween, which a lot of people use.

 

I also appreciate the fact of pointing out that theres no need for everyone to drink the cool aid. I feel that many users on this site sadly drink the cool aid way too much, without realizing that a site like this is set up by the company to gather input on how they feel. So for someone to constantly put down any advice that does not fit the product line or instructions completely negates the reason for a discussion forum (especially one that is setup directly from the company for there customers). I'm very glad that there are guys like Dylan who are always willing to hear this stuff out, and its important that he always leaves off by saying that nothing is set in stone and in the future theres always room for improvement or change.

 

I would also like people to understand that concentrated products are NOT for someone who details cars for a living. They benefit the weekend warrior very much. In the end, you simply save money everywhere. I never liked the idea of something concentrated myself either. That was until I tested out an entire product line that is based around concentrated products.

 

Unfortunately I had a verrrrry strong hunch that the reason Adams has avoided these products is because of user error. And I was right that it was the very same reasons I posted in my Con's (negatives) list. Proper dillution, and distilled water.

 

Just to clarify, I wouldn't use just water either. I was just throwing that out there to make a point. I didn't want you to think I was advocating that, though.

 

[Team Adam's]

Thanks for keeping it civil guys...

[Trents_goat5.7]

***i would think the water may detract from clay life span also**

 

[Kingsford]

 

FFkingsford, why try to suggest that I am "far out" for typing that it cost me 40 dollars for a bottle of detail spray, when you just prove the face for me in the next sentence of your own post. by stating that it cost 39.95 for the gallon. Using common sense, one would likely imagine i'm talking about the gallon bottle when I state 40 $ a bottle.

 

Its a Gallon Jug not a Gallon Bottle. Bottles are 16oz.