ASH10 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I am looking for info on the best most versatile paint meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdisme Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 What's the typical thickness of paint + clearcoat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yea... let's see what Lamborghini is hiding under those pretty colors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdisme Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 20 grit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Well bring your meter this weekend, it should work on at least two of the cars. It's in California with a friend of mine who is working with some guy who has a barn full of classic roadsters! We'll have to rely on my experience this weekend. But I am bringing sandpaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdisme Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well bring your meter this weekend, it should work on at least two of the cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The 'average' coating thickness of a modern factory vehicle will be somewhere around a total of 5-7mils total (on average). Thats sticking to widely accepted standards that primer is laid at 2 mils, pigment or color (base) coat is laid at 1-2 mils and clear coat at 2-3 mils. ... or "assuming" is what I like to call it. Of course, all that is also assuming that some hack hasn't wiped off most of your clear coat with a rotary and some God awful abrasive polish or compound. Sorta like the hacks at the dealership who always want to unnecessarily buff on your new paint when the car first arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Adam's Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 What's the typical thickness of paint + clearcoat? The 'average' coating thickness of a modern factory vehicle will be somewhere around a total of 5-7mils total (on average). Thats sticking to widely accepted standards that primer is laid at 2 mils, pigment or color (base) coat is laid at 1-2 mils and clear coat at 2-3 mils. There are some constants - a color coat will have to be north of 1mil in order to do its job. Thinner than that and the primer will be visible thru it under intense lighting. Primer has to be at 2 mils or better to effectively 'prime' the panels. Clear, on the other hand, being clear is not so much impacted by minimums. A clear laid down super thin will look pretty much the same as clear laid heavy. I'd say its reasonable to expect most cars to have around 2-2.5mils to work with. Just above what is physically possible as far as assembly line spraying minimums. I'm sure as 'accountants' look at these things and technology advances manufactures will spray it as thin as they possibly can. Save a could $ in clear coat per car, product millions of cars, save a couple million dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well, the C6 Corvette for example comes with 1.7MIL's of clear coat. So you can measure most finishes with the MIL reading but like I said before, you don't want to be removing a MIL of anything. It really comes in handy with aftermarket paint jobs where you are going to be adding much more paint and clear than the factory does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdisme Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Okay, wasn't sure if some finishes would be over 1mm (1000 microns) and would need the C range or if B covers pretty much all cars, provided the body material is compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 When talking automotive finishes, your units of measure need to be in microns. You don't want to removing a MIL of anything. Thus, the 200B would be the most ideal of the two as you can still get a reading if you drop below 50 microns (which would be a very bad thing to do). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdisme Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I guess what I'm really asking is would it ever be more than 1mm (moving you from B range to C range)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 What's the typical thickness of paint + clearcoat? That is manufacturer specific. It varies depending on not only the manufacturer, but the different models of the same manufacturer also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 AJ, the Defelsko site makes it sound like the 200 series can do metal and non-metal; is that not accurate? And, assuming it isn't, it looks like the probes cannot be interchanged so you'd need a 200C/Adv for fiberglass and carbon fiber-backed panels but a different model for metal-backed panels? Correct. The 200 B/Advanced is only for polymer coatings on wood, plastic, composites, (etc...), with a measurement range of 13 - 1000 microns (0.5 - 40 mils). The 200B standard does not take individual readings from multiple layers and that makes it useless in my book when it comes to dealing with an application such as car paint. The reason being is because there are multiple layers on a car (primer, base coat, clear coat), and you don't want to go through the top most layer. The 200 C/Advanced is strictly for thicker coatings on concrete, fiberglass, (etc...), with a measurement range of 50 - 3800 microns (2 - 150 mils). If you're thinking about getting one, I would first make sure that you know exactly what type of surfaces that you are going to be taking readings off of and have DeFelsko choose the gauge for you. The 200B/ Advanced is great because it takes lower readings than the 200C/ Advanced but I don't know if the 200c/ Advanced works on everything. When dealing with automotive paint correction, you want to be dealing in microns, not mils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdisme Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 AJ, the Defelsko site makes it sound like the 200 series can do metal and non-metal; is that not accurate? And, assuming it isn't, it looks like the probes cannot be interchanged so you'd need a 200C/Adv for fiberglass and carbon fiber-backed panels but a different model for metal-backed panels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Are you going to be doing a lot of wet sanding? It doesn't matter if he is going to be touching all makes and models. I have seen cars where the clear was so thin that it was beginning to dissolve and peel. I have also seen cars where the swirls are so severe, a paint job was required. The last thing you want to do is take on these types of paint jobs. One check with the meter and you can opt out of that job, saving you from a potential disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris@Adams Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Are you going to be doing a lot of wet sanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE Mook Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I'm assuming that the car in your avatar is the one you have and if so, there is only one meter that you want. The Positector 200 C/Advanced. I had to get one too and that is the only one that works on fiberglass, while giving you a reading of up to 3 substances on fiberglass (as in primer, base coat and clear coat). It only works on fiberglass so if you need it to work on something else, you will need a different paint thickness gauge from the 200 series. That will most likely be the 200 B/Advanced. Some people buy a paint thickness gauge that only measures the total amount of substance on a surface. To me, that makes no sense with detailing as it works on the notion that you are assuming a given value with each individual layer. In detailing, assuming can get you burned so I don't take a chance. As for cost, you're looking at around $2800.00. ....AND the Knowledge has been DROPPED! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Then you want the 200 series for sure. It will tell you exactly how much clear coat is on the car before you strike the paint. That is VERY important and a butt saver for sure. It measures in MIL's and microns (all the way down to 50 microns). You definitely don't want to touch anything with 50 microns of clear on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASH10 Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 I want one for detailing purposes and i also want to measure ferrous as well as non-ferrous materials. if I need to buy 2 that is OK, just going to start a business and want to make sure that I protect myself as well as customers right out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman2008 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I am looking for info on the best most versatile paint meter. I'm assuming that the car in your avatar is the one you have and if so, there is only one meter that you want. The Positector 200 C/Advanced. I had to get one too and that is the only one that works on fiberglass, while giving you a reading of up to 3 substances on fiberglass (as in primer, base coat and clear coat). It only works on fiberglass so if you need it to work on something else, you will need a different paint thickness gauge from the 200 series. That will most likely be the 200 B/Advanced. Some people buy a paint thickness gauge that only measures the total amount of substance on a surface. To me, that makes no sense with detailing as it works on the notion that you are assuming a given value with each individual layer. In detailing, assuming can get you burned so I don't take a chance. As for cost, you're looking at around $2800.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubrunner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I have no idea what they cost but they most certainly are cool to look at and use. He showed me several months back, during a visit to his shop, how a brand new 2011 XF Jaguar had [an obvious] different gauge paint thickness reading from one quarter-panel to the other. I don't remember the exact numbers or how they're measurements are calculated but I do remember an obvious [unacceptable] difference, as he pointed out. He says it's a [fairly] common occurrence with new vehicles from your budget cars to your high end sports/luxury vehicles.... a lot more common than people think. There is an industry acceptable margin, he said, but many exceed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txredgt Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 What surface - apart from metals - are you wanting to measure [ferrious and non ferrious metal]? What do you need one for? Detailing/repair purposes [cutting, wet sanding, machine polishing, etc]? Checking to see if a vehicle was resprayed [accident, totaled, lemon, etc]? Respraying an area yourself [matching]? Something else perhaps... ? I fellow firefighter also co-owns a body/detailing shop. He has several PosiTector® 6000 Series meters by Defelsko [HERE] though I'm not sure exactly which models. I'm back at work Thursday so I'll ask him if you wish. PS: This is truly a professional's tool. I just want one of those tools for the sheer awesomeness it looks like. I bet that thing costs a small fortune with what it can do and being made here in the usa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubrunner Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 What surface - apart from metals - are you wanting to measure [ferrious and non ferrious metal]? What do you need one for? Detailing/repair purposes [cutting, wet sanding, machine polishing, etc]? Checking to see if a vehicle was resprayed [accident, totaled, lemon, etc]? Respraying an area yourself [matching]? Something else perhaps... ? I fellow firefighter also co-owns a body/detailing shop. He has several PosiTector® 6000 Series meters by Defelsko [HERE] though I'm not sure exactly which models. I'm back at work Thursday so I'll ask him if you wish. PS: This is truly a professional's tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
ASH10
I am looking for info on the best most versatile paint meter.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
23 answers to this question
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.