Incorporating Waterless Wash as a pre-treatment for Rinseless Wash

[cammyfive]

Far be it for me to pass up a stellar deal here so I'm thinking about loading up with some gallons of Waterless Wash that are on sale.   I understand the basic premise of the differences between Waterless and Rinseless Washes (waffle weave and spray bottle vs plus towel and bucket(s)) but how about this hybrid I've worked up in my head....

 

1)  Saturate/pretreat panel with Waterless Wash and let sit for a minute or so.

2)  Proceed to Rinseless Wash method via numerous plush MF towels using 2oz Rinseless to 3 or so oz of water in a bucket.

3)  Dry with a large supersoft MF towel.

4)  Wipe any residue away with Detail Spray when dry.

 

Now I know you can make your own quasi-Rinseless/Waterless by diluting Rinseless in distilled water but is there any advantage to what I described above by using the specific Waterless Wash that is currently on sale?

[SJC96GT]

Waterless wash will work. I've actually been doing exactly what you said pre-treating or pre-soaking rather the paint first with rinseless mixed up in a 1 liter bottle before I do a rinse less wash just to be extra safe. If I remember correctly rinseless has a wax additive in it. So that would be the only advantage I see.

[Ricky Bobby]

Ed, there's nothing "wrong" with what you're saying per se, I also like that you use the GDWM for rinseless washing, its really the best and safest way to do it.  If you are really looking for an efficient Rinseless wash, use distilled water when mixing, makes the solution wipe down so clean!  I use 3/4 oz per gallon of distilled when using Rinseless, I usually pre-mix the gallons, and then when I'm ready to do a rinseless wash I just throw 6-8 plush MF's in the bucket and dump 2 gallons in there and by the time I take the bucket back out to the garage the towels are nice and soaked.

 

Personally, since Rinseless is a concentrate, I can adjust how much "power" it has as a pre-soak.  You can't make Waterless any more concentrated than it comes since its sold as RTU.

 

For Rinseless pre-soaking, I use a dilution of 8:1 or 16 oz per gallon of distilled.  At QD dilution, Rinseless is 16:1, but again its really only good for light dusting and dirt cleanup.  Let me tell you, at that concentration of 8:1, it has a ton more slickness and power to break down the grime, than the RTU Waterless.

 

Granted my Rinseless washes are most often done in Jersey winters, so I am looking for the most effective, slickest, powerful pre-soak and concentration.  Waterless is an ok product but its really not great for breaking up much except for very light dirt, and used by a lot of guys in show season.

 

Waterless recently had a price reduction so it's going to be at that price going forward.  If you're really interested in doing Rinseless washes and want the safest wash possible, why not do the following:

 

-Buy 2 16 oz bottles of Rinseless ($31 after forum coupon), and you have 1 bottle to mix in for your "pre-soak" gallon at 8:1

-The other bottle is good for at least 9-10 rinseless washes using the concentrate

-Alternatively, you could buy the gallon of Rinseless at $45, and have enough to make 8 gallons of pre-soak, or say 6 gallons of pre-soak and 32 oz left of concentrate for Rinseless

 

You can also follow up with a wipe-down of the 8:1 dilution for extra gloss after drying.  Or Detail Spray, whatever tickles your fancy.

 

 

Do you use Waterless often in your current regimen or were you just looking for another use for it?  Depending on dilution, Rinseless does everything Waterless can do and more.

 

I'm not knocking Waterless, I'm just saying there are limits to it (bug softening, actual waterless washing on light dust/dirt with no wax additive), and each product has its own intended functions.

 

 

Oh and another tip for Rinseless washing:  Get yourself a Kwazar Venus compression sprayer.  Your hands will thank you, its so much quicker to pre-soak panels when rinseless washing.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Ricky Bobby

[SJC96GT]

^ Agreed, definitely pick yourself up a Kwazar Venus compression sprayer to add your detailing arsenal. Just got one and absolutely love it!

[TheBurninator]

 If I remember correctly rinseless has a wax additive in it.

 

Waterless has a wax in it as well.

 

 

I would do as Jason was saying with using rinseless as a presoak. I do something similar as well.

 

 

Oh and another tip for Rinseless washing:  Get yourself a Kwazar Venus compression sprayer.  Your hands will thank you, its so much quicker to pre-soak panels when rinseless washing.

 

Is the Kwazar worth the extra cash compared to other compression sprayers? Only reason I ask is I wasn't impressed with the Kwazar Mercury spray bottles. Both of the ones I bought a while back (before Adam's offered them) fell apart in my hand as I was using them and damn near hit my car both times.

[Ricky Bobby]

Waterless has a wax in it as well.

 

 

I would do as Jason was saying with using rinseless as a presoak. I do something similar as well.

 

 

 

Is the Kwazar worth the extra cash compared to other compression sprayers? Only reason I ask is I wasn't impressed with the Kwazar Mercury spray bottles. Both of the ones I bought a while back (before Adam's offered them) fell apart in my hand as I was using them and damn near hit my car both times.

 

If you mean compared to the sprayer at Home Depot for $7, go for it:

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RL-Flo-Master-4-pt-Hand-Sprayer-56HD/100164531

 

The Home Depot sprayer is fine for just diluted rinseless, its not a harsh chemical.

 

The Venus I will say is heavy duty, I also don't like the Mercury bottles.  The Venus is also nice if you use APC or DWC in it because of the viton seals for chemicals.  You can also get a foaming tip for the Venus.  I just wish the Venus came in black and not blue.  I bought from Phil @ DD with a 15% off coupon so it was just about 20 bucks.  I expect many years of use.

[TheBurninator]

If you mean compared to the sprayer at Home Depot for $7, go for it:

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RL-Flo-Master-4-pt-Hand-Sprayer-56HD/100164531

 

The Home Depot sprayer is fine for just diluted rinseless, its not a harsh chemical.

 

The Venus I will say is heavy duty, I also don't like the Mercury bottles.  The Venus is also nice if you use APC or DWC in it because of the viton seals for chemicals.  You can also get a foaming tip for the Venus.  I just wish the Venus came in black and not blue.  I bought from Phil @ DD with a 15% off coupon so it was just about 20 bucks.  I expect many years of use.

 

The Home Depot ones are a joke for any real usage. Been there done that.

 

I was looking at the Tolco full function sprayers http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=42380&catid=807

 

Didn't realize that Phil had the Venus so cheap. Might have to order one to try out.

[Ricky Bobby]

Tolco one looks nice.  I was talking about the HD one for light duty guys, I wouldn't use it for heavy use.

 

I'm going to pick up a foaming nozzle for the Venus from Phil next time I am up at his new shop, I'm due to give him a visit and he has to put Xpel ultimate after I'm done with my new headlight retrofit project.

[Team Adam's]

The 'safety' aspect of RW at around a 16:1 dilution and WW right out of the bottle are about the same. The only reason we continue to offer WW is that some people are just not comfortable or willing to dilute products, so we provide a RTU (ready to use) version.

 

So in your outline above, in terms of preventing damge, using WW or diluted RW will have the same effect.

[SJC96GT]

Waterless has a wax in it as well.

 

 

I would do as Jason was saying with using rinseless as a presoak. I do something similar as well.

 

It does? In the product description it mentions it contains no gloss enhancers. It's soul purpose I thought was just to clean without adding any enhancement or wax to the car. Kind of why I thought following up with detail spray to give the paint that shine was recommended.

 

Thats what I've been doing.

[TheBurninator]

Tolco one looks nice.  I was talking about the HD one for light duty guys, I wouldn't use it for heavy use.

 

I'm going to pick up a foaming nozzle for the Venus from Phil next time I am up at his new shop, I'm due to give him a visit and he has to put Xpel ultimate after I'm done with my new headlight retrofit project.

 

This is one of those days I wish I was on the east coast so I could just pop in to DD and check out their shop.

 

 

The 'safety' aspect of RW at around a 16:1 dilution and WW right out of the bottle are about the same. The only reason we continue to offer WW is that some people are just not comfortable or willing to dilute products, so we provide a RTU (ready to use) version.

 

So in your outline above, in terms of preventing damge, using WW or diluted RW will have the same effect.

I like the RTU waterless because I don't like the smell of Adam's Rinseless

 

It does? In the product description it mentions it contains no gloss enhancers. It's soul purpose I thought was just to clean without adding any enhancement or wax to the car. Kind of why I thought following up with detail spray to give the paint that shine was recommended.

 

Thats what I've been doing.

 

I could be getting my waterless wash products mixed up... I may have too many products on my shelf right now

 

Looks like you are right according to the website.

Edited January 14, 2015 by TheBurninator

[Team Adam's]

RW contains wax... but primarily for lubrication purposes. It will produce a short lived beading effect like a coat of wax if used in high concentrations. At the dilution of 16:1 there is a next to unnoticeable amount deposited.

 

WW is wax free and leaves nothing behind.

[SJC96GT]

Thanks for the clarification Dylan. For a moment I thought, all the times I had been using waterless wash because I didn't want any wax applied before a layer of glaze and wax was useless. But it's good to know it contains no wax.

[Team Adam's]

Thanks for the clarification Dylan. For a moment I thought, all the times I had been using waterless wash because I didn't want any wax applied before a layer of glaze and wax was useless. But it's good to know it contains no wax.

 

Have wax down before glaze, especially the small amount contained in a product like RW would have virtually no impact on the glaze performance.

[SJC96GT]

Have wax down before glaze, especially the small amount contained in a product like RW would have virtually no impact on the glaze performance.

Oh.. I was thinking all along it would. Thanks for letting me know, in that case I'll just use up what I have left of waterless wash and just solely use RW from now on.

[cammyfive]

Thanks for all the advice.  I guess this is one of those good deals that I really don't have any need for seeing how I just bought a gallon of Rinseless Wash!  

[cammyfive]

Ed, there's nothing "wrong" with what you're saying per se, I also like that you use the GDWM for rinseless washing, its really the best and safest way to do it.  If you are really looking for an efficient Rinseless wash, use distilled water when mixing, makes the solution wipe down so clean!  I use 3/4 oz per gallon of distilled when using Rinseless, I usually pre-mix the gallons, and then when I'm ready to do a rinseless wash I just throw 6-8 plush MF's in the bucket and dump 2 gallons in there and by the time I take the bucket back out to the garage the towels are nice and soaked.

 

Personally, since Rinseless is a concentrate, I can adjust how much "power" it has as a pre-soak.  You can't make Waterless any more concentrated than it comes since its sold as RTU.

 

For Rinseless pre-soaking, I use a dilution of 8:1 or 16 oz per gallon of distilled.  At QD dilution, Rinseless is 16:1, but again its really only good for light dusting and dirt cleanup.  Let me tell you, at that concentration of 8:1, it has a ton more slickness and power to break down the grime, than the RTU Waterless.

 

Granted my Rinseless washes are most often done in Jersey winters, so I am looking for the most effective, slickest, powerful pre-soak and concentration.  Waterless is an ok product but its really not great for breaking up much except for very light dirt, and used by a lot of guys in show season.

 

Waterless recently had a price reduction so it's going to be at that price going forward.  If you're really interested in doing Rinseless washes and want the safest wash possible, why not do the following:

 

-Buy 2 16 oz bottles of Rinseless ($31 after forum coupon), and you have 1 bottle to mix in for your "pre-soak" gallon at 8:1

-The other bottle is good for at least 9-10 rinseless washes using the concentrate

-Alternatively, you could buy the gallon of Rinseless at $45, and have enough to make 8 gallons of pre-soak, or say 6 gallons of pre-soak and 32 oz left of concentrate for Rinseless

 

You can also follow up with a wipe-down of the 8:1 dilution for extra gloss after drying.  Or Detail Spray, whatever tickles your fancy.

 

 

Do you use Waterless often in your current regimen or were you just looking for another use for it?  Depending on dilution, Rinseless does everything Waterless can do and more.

 

I'm not knocking Waterless, I'm just saying there are limits to it (bug softening, actual waterless washing on light dust/dirt with no wax additive), and each product has its own intended functions.

 

 

Oh and another tip for Rinseless washing:  Get yourself a Kwazar Venus compression sprayer.  Your hands will thank you, its so much quicker to pre-soak panels when rinseless washing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great advice!  I feel infinitely more comfortable with the GDWM than a single towel and a grit guard in a rinse bucket.  I'll divert the $60 I was going to use for 2 gallons of Waterless Wash to bringing my Edgeless Blue MFs up to an even 20 in quantity.  

 

Edited January 14, 2015 by cammyfive

[Rick72]

Far be it for me to pass up a stellar deal here so I'm thinking about loading up with some gallons of Waterless Wash that are on sale.   I understand the basic premise of the differences between Waterless and Rinseless Washes (waffle weave and spray bottle vs plus towel and bucket(s)) but how about this hybrid I've worked up in my head....

 

1)  Saturate/pretreat panel with Waterless Wash and let sit for a minute or so.

2)  Proceed to Rinseless Wash method via numerous plush MF towels using 2oz Rinseless to 3 or so oz of water in a bucket.

3)  Dry with a large supersoft MF towel.

4)  Wipe any residue away with Detail Spray when dry.

 

Now I know you can make your own quasi-Rinseless/Waterless by diluting Rinseless in distilled water but is there any advantage to what I described above by using the specific Waterless Wash that is currently on sale?

I do this. The only thing that I would add is a quick water rinse if at all possible.

[Ricky Bobby]

Great advice! I feel infinitely more comfortable with the GDWM than a single towel and a grit guard in a rinse bucket. I'll divert the $60 I was going to use for 2 gallons of Waterless Wash to bringing my Edgeless Blue MFs up to an even 20 in quantity.

 

Only in extreme circumstances do you need to do a pressure rinse before Rinseless washing.  I had to do it on Sunday with the wifes car, but it used less money, and I was done quicker.  Just spent 5 mins and $3 hosing it down, then pulled her car out and did the GDWM in the parking lot of the coin-op next to the vaccuums.  Was done in an hour between rinsing and actual washing/drying.

 

Very efficient!  For her Rav4 and my X5 I use about 6-8 towels depending on the level of soiling.  I usually keep black cheapo 350gsm towels in the bucket and use one each on each of the wheels (I don't use good towels on wheels, and don't co-mingle paint/wheel towels), so probably 6-8 plush towels and 4 cheapo towels.  Perfect amount every time with the 2 gallons of distilled as well, I usually have about 16-20 oz left in the bucket when done.  You may need less if you have smaller cars.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Ricky Bobby

[PT3]

How much of the car do you wash via Rinse-less method before going back to dry?

[PT3]

How much of the car will you wash via Rinse-less before going back to dry?

[Performance Auto Detailing]

How much of the car will you wash via Rinse-less before going back to dry?

 

 

I've tried pretty much every scenario including doing the whole car before going back to dry and just doing a panel at a time. I separate it into like 4 sections. I have found what works best for me is to do the roof, windshield, rear glass, hood and top of the trunk, then dry. I'll then do the sides of the car separately and dry. Then I'll do the front and back and dry both afterwards. I then finish with the wheels. Works very well for me and all my client's cars I do. This of course wouldn't work for all cars, but for a sedan or 2 door like mine it works perfectly. 

[Ricky Bobby]

How much of the car do you wash via Rinse-less method before going back to dry?

Not sure if I follow you Phil?

[Performance Auto Detailing]

Not sure if I follow you Phil?

 

Read my post, he's asking (I assume) how much of the car you wash at a time before drying. 

[Ricky Bobby]

Oh I just read it, yeah that's about exactly how I do it.

 

Roof and windshield - 1 towel, then dry

Hood and front end - 1-2 towels depending on soiling, then dry

Side of car - 2 towels then dry

Other side of car - 2 towels then dry

Back glass, bumper and hatch - 1-2 towels then dry

Wheels last - 1 towel per wheel (different colored and only used for rinseless on wheels), then dry each when done

 

Then I go over door jambs with diluted Rinseless 8:1 and a separate MF towel to wipe them down and clean.

[SJC96GT]

How much of the car do you wash via Rinse-less method before going back to dry?

A panel at a time, I do a door then dry it. Then move onto fender and dry that. So on and so forth, working my way around the car. By the end of my rinseless wash, I've used 8-10 microfiber towels.

Edited January 15, 2015 by SJC96GT