new BMW black sapphire metallic, what to do?

[wely324]

looking for some ideas on a good detail process for a new car that will have about 3000 miles through nj winter and only washed once by the dealer, I know. Regardless the car had some wash and swirl marks when i picked up the car new. So I'm not looking to do a 100% correction, but would like to get it mostly corrected with lots of gloss, it's got tons of gloss right now. From my research the black sapphire metallic bmw paint is fairly hard, so I think I will need to do a two step correction to remove the swirls, but I will test spot first with a finishing polish. 

 

The car definitely has some protection on the car as it beads up well. Would I be able to do a rinseless wash, clay, ipa wipe, compound, polish, ipa wipe, and then apply my wax or sealant depending on what I decide on? I was thinking if it would be possible to do that process panel by panel as im not sure i could finish the car in a single day and would be working outside, so weather dependent. 

 

My idea is to split the car into three sections and then give it a thorough wash after completing the exterior and add a fresh layer of sealant, etc? Or my other thinking is to just do a thorough wash, clay, one step polish, then glaze and sealant and call it a day? 

[Chris@Adams]

You are on the right track as far as polishing however I would seriously consider doing a full Ceramic Coating or Spray Coating.

Life washing and drying a coated car is MUCH easier especially a black one.

BTW You can use our Coating Prep do your wipe down instead of ipa  also you just need to do a wipe down when done polishing and before coating.

 

https://adamspolishes.com/shop/exterior/ceramics.html

[wely324]

22 hours ago, Chris@Adams said:

You are on the right track as far as polishing however I would seriously consider doing a full Ceramic Coating or Spray Coating.

Life washing and drying a coated car is MUCH easier especially a black one.

BTW You can use our Coating Prep do your wipe down instead of ipa  also you just need to do a wipe down when done polishing and before coating.

 

https://adamspolishes.com/shop/exterior/ceramics.html

 

I have considered a coating but applying it without a garage and proper lighting is my main concern, along with the waste of microfiber if I were to apply in stages. 

 

I am very intrigued by the spray coating as the lifetime is shorter than most coatings and the application process seems less prone to errors. My last car was black, and I had it professionally coated, which was awesome for the first 2 years. The "5 year coating" although still on the car needed to be polished and decontaminated, which basically meant it needed to be removed by compound and reapplied. I'm just not a huge fan of coatings on daily driven cars as it will probably need to be clayed and polished before the coatings lifespan. 

[shane@detailedreflections]

1 hour ago, wely324 said:

 

I have considered a coating but applying it without a garage and proper lighting is my main concern, along with the waste of microfiber if I were to apply in stages. 

 

I am very intrigued by the spray coating as the lifetime is shorter than most coatings and the application process seems less prone to errors. My last car was black, and I had it professionally coated, which was awesome for the first 2 years. The "5 year coating" although still on the car needed to be polished and decontaminated, which basically meant it needed to be removed by compound and reapplied. I'm just not a huge fan of coatings on daily driven cars as it will probably need to be clayed and polished before the coatings lifespan. 

 

Just wanted to clear up a few misconceptions about coatings given your experience. 

 

Coatings get contaminated less quickly than non coated vehicles due to their hydrophobic, “self cleaning” properties. This doesn’t translate to not needing to be decontaminated. 

 

We recommend clients with coated vehicles to come back yearly so we can properly clay and decontaminate as needed. In that process if a light polish needs to be done we will, or even to reapply the top coat.

 

Many professional grade coatings are applied in layers so that the top layer can be damaged/removed/replaced as needed. We don’t charge extra for that once a client has a coating done. We simply do what needs to be done for our clients.  Most professional base layers are difficult to remove...think wetsanding. Polishing lightly is adequate, especially if you’re reapplying a top layer. 

 

If your vehicle went two years without the proper maintenance, I’m not surprised it doesn’t act like when it was new. My feeling is some decontamination and a light polish and that action comes back. 

 

The number one cause of people people who have coated vehicles and think the product has failed is that the surface needs to be decontaminated. Once you get contamination on the surface, it won’t act like when it was freshly installed as it’s not the same surface it was. A decontamination and a little top layer maintenance and you’re good to go!

 

Despite marketing hype, coatings can be damaged and they do require maintenance. It’s just a different maintenance schedule than a non coated vehicle. 

[falcaineer]

1 hour ago, shane@detailedreflections said:

 

Just wanted to clear up a few misconceptions about coatings given your experience. 

 

Coatings get contaminated less quickly than non coated vehicles due to their hydrophobic, “self cleaning” properties. This doesn’t translate to not needing to be decontaminated. 

 

We recommend clients with coated vehicles to come back yearly so we can properly clay and decontaminate as needed. In that process if a light polish needs to be done we will, or even to reapply the top coat.

 

Many professional grade coatings are applied in layers so that the top layer can be damaged/removed/replaced as needed. We don’t charge extra for that once a client has a coating done. We simply do what needs to be done for our clients.  Most professional base layers are difficult to remove...think wetsanding. Polishing lightly is adequate, especially if you’re reapplying a top layer. 

 

If your vehicle went two years without the proper maintenance, I’m not surprised it doesn’t act like when it was new. My feeling is some decontamination and a light polish and that action comes back. 

 

The number one cause of people people who have coated vehicles and think the product has failed is that the surface needs to be decontaminated. Once you get contamination on the surface, it won’t act like when it was freshly installed as it’s not the same surface it was. A decontamination and a little top layer maintenance and you’re good to go!

 

Despite marketing hype, coatings can be damaged and they do require maintenance. It’s just a different maintenance schedule than a non coated vehicle. 

 

To clarify, Shane, decontamination of a coating includes what? Clay? Iron Remover? Both? More? Just trying to learn a bit more about coatings... 

[shane@detailedreflections]

2 hours ago, falcaineer said:

 

To clarify, Shane, decontamination of a coating includes what? Clay? Iron Remover? Both? More? Just trying to learn a bit more about coatings... 

 

We typically do both as maintenance. The iron remover makes the clay process easier. It’s not necessarily required as much as it is convenient. 

 

Coatings get their hydrophobic properties from water contact angles. So the smaller the surface of water, the less friction it has to hang on. So coatings by nature are slick. Now put bonded contamination on the paint and it gets a bit rough and interferes with that contact angle increasing the surface area. All of a sudden, the water can cling to the surface.

 

The same holds true of surface damage such as scratches or etching. Again, coatings are harder to damage but not impossible. The imperfections allow more for water to cling to. 

 

As an example, think of a freshly waxed floor. Pretty slick. Easy to fall on. Now scuff it up a bit with some contamination or some grippy texture tape and all of a sudden it’s not so slippery. Remove the tape, and the slippery condition is restored. 

 

Coated vehicles contaminate slower than non coated, but they do contaminate and will require maintenance. This is true regardless of whatever hype is out there (and some companies make some crazy claims). 

 

Hope this clears it up a bit. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by shane@detailedreflections

[falcaineer]

3 hours ago, shane@detailedreflections said:

 

We typically do both as maintenance. The iron remover makes the clay process easier. It’s not necessarily required as much as it is convenient. 

 

Coatings get their hydrophobic properties from water contact angles. So the smaller the surface of water, the less friction it has to hang on. So coatings by nature are slick. Now put bonded contamination on the paint and it gets a bit rough and interferes with that contact angle increasing the surface area. All of a sudden, the water can cling to the surface.

 

The same holds true of surface damage such as scratches or etching. Again, coatings are harder to damage but not impossible. The imperfections allow more for water to cling to. 

 

As an example, think of a freshly waxed floor. Pretty slick. Easy to fall on. Now scuff it up a bit with some contamination or some grippy texture tape and all of a sudden it’s not so slippery. Remove the tape, and the slippery condition is restored. 

 

Coated vehicles contaminate slower than non coated, but they do contaminate and will require maintenance. This is true regardless of whatever hype is out there (and some companies make some crazy claims). 

 

Hope this clears it up a bit. 

 

Just want I was looking for, Shane. Thanks! 

 

Now back to @wely324's thread (sorry I hijacked it, Billy...it's something I've meant to ask for a while).

[wely324]

20 hours ago, shane@detailedreflections said:

 

Just wanted to clear up a few misconceptions about coatings given your experience. 

 

Coatings get contaminated less quickly than non coated vehicles due to their hydrophobic, “self cleaning” properties. This doesn’t translate to not needing to be decontaminated. 

 

We recommend clients with coated vehicles to come back yearly so we can properly clay and decontaminate as needed. In that process if a light polish needs to be done we will, or even to reapply the top coat.

 

Many professional grade coatings are applied in layers so that the top layer can be damaged/removed/replaced as needed. We don’t charge extra for that once a client has a coating done. We simply do what needs to be done for our clients.  Most professional base layers are difficult to remove...think wetsanding. Polishing lightly is adequate, especially if you’re reapplying a top layer. 

 

If your vehicle went two years without the proper maintenance, I’m not surprised it doesn’t act like when it was new. My feeling is some decontamination and a light polish and that action comes back. 

 

The number one cause of people people who have coated vehicles and think the product has failed is that the surface needs to be decontaminated. Once you get contamination on the surface, it won’t act like when it was freshly installed as it’s not the same surface it was. A decontamination and a little top layer maintenance and you’re good to go!

 

Despite marketing hype, coatings can be damaged and they do require maintenance. It’s just a different maintenance schedule than a non coated vehicle. 

 

I think that is where a lot of people are mislead. I feel the hype of the "self-cleaning properties" over shadows the true maintenance schedule required.

 

And just to clarify, you don't charge your client to bring their car back for a clay, polish, and top coat reapplication??? 

 

 

[shane@detailedreflections]

1 hour ago, wely324 said:

 

I think that is where a lot of people are mislead. I feel the hype of the "self-cleaning properties" over shadows the true maintenance schedule required.

 

And just to clarify, you don't charge your client to bring their car back for a clay, polish, and top coat reapplication??? 

 

 

 

No more than a standard detail package. We don’t charge them an upcharge to reinstall the top layer of a product they already paid for. I can’t in good faith ask a client for a large sum of money to install the product initially and say you have to bring it back to me yearly so I can charge you all over again. At that point it seems like a money grab. 

 

The process of washing, iron and clay happens anyway when we get a car. 99% of our jobs involve at least a light finish polish. At that point it’s not significantly longer for us to reapply a top coat. The top coat we work with is forgiving and we are experienced in its application so two of us can get it done without significantly increasing the time of the appointment for a client. Most top layers we reinstall are done with remnants from initial application. 

 

With this process you can see our increased cost of maintenance is minimal, as such I don’t feel comfortable inflating the cost to a client. It’s not how we do business. We are making money on the service regardless. The least we can do is to do it right. 

 

That being said if someone comes in with a trashed finish on a coated vehicle, the costs get passed on. In exchange for our policy we expect at least a minimum level of care for your vehicle when it’s not with us. 

 

Hopefully that clears up any confusion. 

[wely324]

20 hours ago, shane@detailedreflections said:

 

No more than a standard detail package. We don’t charge them an upcharge to reinstall the top layer of a product they already paid for. I can’t in good faith ask a client for a large sum of money to install the product initially and say you have to bring it back to me yearly so I can charge you all over again. At that point it seems like a money grab. 

 

The process of washing, iron and clay happens anyway when we get a car. 99% of our jobs involve at least a light finish polish. At that point it’s not significantly longer for us to reapply a top coat. The top coat we work with is forgiving and we are experienced in its application so two of us can get it done without significantly increasing the time of the appointment for a client. Most top layers we reinstall are done with remnants from initial application. 

 

With this process you can see our increased cost of maintenance is minimal, as such I don’t feel comfortable inflating the cost to a client. It’s not how we do business. We are making money on the service regardless. The least we can do is to do it right. 

 

That being said if someone comes in with a trashed finish on a coated vehicle, the costs get passed on. In exchange for our policy we expect at least a minimum level of care for your vehicle when it’s not with us. 

 

Hopefully that clears up any confusion. 

 

Seems very fair. I think my initial thinking was that it was a coating that should last 5 years and I won't have to touch it. Now I realize that is not realistic. 

 

I never asked my detailer what he would charge as I wasn't looking to bring the car back to him, over an hour away from my house now. 

[shane@detailedreflections]

1 hour ago, wely324 said:

 

Seems very fair. I think my initial thinking was that it was a coating that should last 5 years and I won't have to touch it. Now I realize that is not realistic. 

 

I never asked my detailer what he would charge as I wasn't looking to bring the car back to him, over an hour away from my house now. 

 

If your belief was five years without touching it and that’s what you were lead to believe, it’s a flaw with your detailer.

 

We make it very clear that they are not maintenance free. You can do the maintenance yourself, it’s not that difficult to do. It just needs to be done. Coating maintenance has more time between services. That’s the benefit. Well, one of. Besides the harder top costs and such. The list goes on. 

 

I feel a properly installed coating is worth the investment, but it has to be an informed decision. 

[Furyan]

Thanks for the information in here. Quick question if u may. My vehicle came with a sealant from the dealership. Is it true claying it now will rub that sealant off. I noticed lots of debris around the bottom of my car when washing today. Needs a good claying for sure.

[mc2hill]

@FuryanIf it just a sealant it probably will be removed when clayed, or at least the clay will remove alot of the protection.  

[Furyan]

1 hour ago, mc2hill said:

@FuryanIf it just a sealant it probably will be removed when clayed, or at least the clay will remove alot of the protection.  

 

Okay thank you. Is there anything i can do to get that crud off without removing the sealant?

[mc2hill]

@Furyan Anything more than a regular 2 bucket wash will degrade the sealant.  Claying is part of the decontamination, and that will remove most sealants or waxes.  Even something like APC can remove them.  If you are planning a full detail sometime this spring I would leave it until then.