Micro scratches

[Bobtorious]

Hi!

 

I'm having a problem with what I'd call micro scratches. To an untrained eye, they are invisible, but to us detailing experts, you can find them I've spent 2 full weekends this year polishing and detailing the car, and countless hours of those weekends polishing away with SHR on those trouble areas

 

No matter what I do, I cannot get these scratches out. Is it time for me to upgrade to a rotary buffer? BTW, I follow the good rules of car washing during my weekly washes: 2 bucket wash, top to bottom, one mitt specifically for the car, etc.

 

 

And happy Friday!

[3BVert]

Sorry to hear about the micro-scratches, and we are well aware of the reality. Some clear coats need more cutting power than the D/A polisher to correct. That's exactly why we have been testing other machines, and determining if they are safe enough for those of us who are not professional body shop types, and don't have years of experience with high-speed buffers, sandpaper, etc.

 

Stay tuned, and your call has been heard!

 

I guess that means I should put away the sanding block, huh?

 

Thanks, Adam! I can't wait to see what you come up with. The PC does the job on the swirls. I'll just pretend those micro-scratches aren't there for now.

[Adam]

I personally think those of us who are driving a daily driver might be setting our expections alittle to high maybe. Yes we can get the paint corrected for that moment in time but once we start driving in the elements again the swirls will start to appear again no matter how careful your are.

 

I've decided to adopt a few members ideas and they are 90% is just fine as it beats most every cars finish out there as a DD, and I've learned to accept the above and call it job done. This may not work for all but it allows me to live life not live for my cars finish which again is better then most.

 

Well put Ralph, and I like to feel good about my driver as well. Mine is a black, 2003 Excursion, imperfect, but probably one of the cleanest giant black SUV's in town, if not the cleanest.

 

Maintaining a perfect daily driver is tough in most places, and more difficult if you don't have a pressure washer to remove dirt without touching the car.

[Junkman2008]

I personally think those of us who are driving a daily driver might be setting our expections alittle to high maybe. Yes we can get the paint corrected for that moment in time but once we start driving in the elements again the swirls will start to appear again no matter how careful your are.

 

I've decided to adopt a few members ideas and they are 90% is just fine as it beats most every cars finish out there as a DD, and I've learned to accept the above and call it job done. This may not work for all but it allows me to live life not live for my cars finish which again is better then most.

 

Micro-scratches, definitely. Swirls, they should never reappear if you are washing and removing dust correctly. I don't drive my car in the winter for the most part but during the summer, it gets driven to death. That's why I have so many miles on it. With that said, it very seldom picks up any maintenance type damage.

 

Now here's the key. I was able to get it perfect at one time. Once I achieved perfection, maintaining it is rather easy with proper paint maintenance procedures. I have my share of rock chips, all kinds of gouges on the rockers from rocks and things like that but most people never look at the car that low. The upper areas of the paint look perfect.

 

Your videos have been a big help and I really appreciate them. They've shown me I was using way too much polish and way too much pressure. Those two pieces of info alone have saved me gobs of time and money.

 

However, the microscratches persist. It's not like I get rid of them and reintroduce them with the next dusting or wash. After wash, dry, and clay bar, I polish with SHR and FMP. This reduces them a bit but they remain. I can spend hours SHR'ing and FMP'ing but I can never seem to get rid of them entirely.

 

My cars are not daily drivers. I'm fortunate that I can ride the bus to work. They spend our Minnesota winters under covers in a non-heated garage. I don't even drive them in the rain. Despite all of this babying, it's so frustrating that I can't seem to get rid of these microscratches. It's even more frustrating after spending hours working on them!

 

I'm with radman on this one junkman. 2 bucket wash with grit guard, top to bottom. And I also live in MN, and ride the bus, and don't drive in the rain or the snow!

 

Here's the deal. The PC, albeit an effective machine is a safe device to use for paint correction. The operative word here is safe. Powerful is a totally different story. That is NOT a trait of the PC. Powerful AND safe is not something you will find built into one polisher for the most part. There are exceptions but they are usually one or the other.

 

With that said, some of the damage still in your paint will come out, it just may not come out very fast or soon using the PC. This is why professionals use more powerful polishers to remove very bad damage. It may take a PC 20-40 passes to do what a rotary can do in one pass. The key is, you'll still have paint on your car with the PC and you are only removing a ever so thin amount of clear coat with each pass of the PC. That's why the damage you still see is so hard to remove.

 

Now there are more aggressive compounds that you can use but from personal experience, they can end up costing you a paint job just as the rotary can. So my advice to you both is to walk the path of the water drop. Drops of water have been responsible for drilling through rock formations. Yea, it took some time but that constant drip or flow were consistent and persistent enough to do to stone what it would have taken a machine to do in a time when there were no machines. If you persist, using a proper technique and the proper amount of polish, you can eventually rid your car of this damage. No one is saying that it will happen fast, but I am definitely saying that it can happen. That I can vouch for from experience. It took me about 6 months when I first started using the PC to get there. You have the advantage of my experience and videos to assist you, I had nothing but practice, and I tried a boat load of products.

 

If your technique is good, you'll get there if you have the patience. There may be damage on your car that is too deep to remove, but if the damage is as you all say it is (microfine scratches), then it will eventually come out. The question is, do you have the patience and time to be the water drop.

[BRZN]

I think the micro scratches you guys/gals are talking about I call spider webs. They look like a spider web layed down on your finish, they will come out.

 

I have three cars: my company car an '07 Marine Blue Dodge Magnum (I work on Dairy Farms with dirt driveways/lanes), my wifes '05 Arctic White Volvo XC70, and my "toy" an '06 Pontiac GTO. The Goat's garaged while the other two sit outside.

 

The Magnum and Volvo, as DD's, get a full correction in the spring. Each car on it's own takes an entire weekend to complete starting Friday evening with the wash, finishing Sunday afternoon with the wax coat. Each car gets washed everyother weekend (weather permitting). During the summer they'll get a fresh coat of wax a couple times then clay barred and waxed again prior to the winter. These cars have never been any better than 80% to being fully corrected, and to me that's fine: they're DD's and (at least to me) look better than most any car on the road. The weekend washes usually take four hours to complete.

 

The Goat is a show car and about 99% perfect right now. I've got to spend more time below the beltline and on a couple rogue marks elsewhere. I'm to the point I think the PC will get the most of the last 1%. Time to get to this level, with a very conservative estimate, 80 hours with a rotary (30 years experience with it and this one turns relatively slow at 1,400 rpm). I don't take her out as much now that I've gotten her to this point, the spider webs will show up again just going to get the gas tank topped off! To me as a show car this is fine, as a DD no way. Once you get your car to this level of perfection it can become a full time job to keep it there.

 

Guess what I'm trying to say with my ramblings is be realistic with your expectations and enjoy what you've been able to accomplish, just look at the other cars on the road!

[BlueXfire]

I try to keep our two Crossfire's as perfect as possible. Garage kept unless their going to a show or for a weekend drive. I have noticed that the Crossfire's clear will stay micro scratch free much longer than my new Camaro will. Once I got the Crossfire's corrected they have held up very well to having the covers taken on and off and the weekend show runs. The Camaro on the other hand, under the same treatments and use is gaining micro scratches just while I'm looking at it. I've been told the Camaro finish is softer. I don't know if there is really any truth to this, but it would appear that there is difference's in the clear finish each manufactures uses.

 

 

 

Definitely waiting to see what you guys come up with next.

[Bobtorious]

Your videos have been a big help and I really appreciate them. They've shown me I was using way too much polish and way too much pressure. Those two pieces of info alone have saved me gobs of time and money.

 

However, the microscratches persist. It's not like I get rid of them and reintroduce them with the next dusting or wash. After wash, dry, and clay bar, I polish with SHR and FMP. This reduces them a bit but they remain. I can spend hours SHR'ing and FMP'ing but I can never seem to get rid of them entirely.

 

My cars are not daily drivers. I'm fortunate that I can ride the bus to work. They spend our Minnesota winters under covers in a non-heated garage. I don't even drive them in the rain. Despite all of this babying, it's so frustrating that I can't seem to get rid of these microscratches. It's even more frustrating after spending hours working on them!

 

I'm with radman on this one junkman. 2 bucket wash with grit guard, top to bottom. And I also live in MN, and ride the bus, and don't drive in the rain or the snow!

[radmanly]

You don't need to take a rotary to it at all. A PC will remedy your situation. The first thing you need to do is recognize that your washing and dust removal techniques are creating the problem. Once you correct those two aspects of your detailing regiment, you can then fix the problem once and for all using the techniques that I show in my videos.

 

Your videos have been a big help and I really appreciate them. They've shown me I was using way too much polish and way too much pressure. Those two pieces of info alone have saved me gobs of time and money.

 

However, the microscratches persist. It's not like I get rid of them and reintroduce them with the next dusting or wash. After wash, dry, and clay bar, I polish with SHR and FMP. This reduces them a bit but they remain. I can spend hours SHR'ing and FMP'ing but I can never seem to get rid of them entirely.

 

My cars are not daily drivers. I'm fortunate that I can ride the bus to work. They spend our Minnesota winters under covers in a non-heated garage. I don't even drive them in the rain. Despite all of this babying, it's so frustrating that I can't seem to get rid of these microscratches. It's even more frustrating after spending hours working on them!

[Fit08]

I personally think those of us who are driving a daily driver might be setting our expections alittle to high maybe. Yes we can get the paint corrected for that moment in time but once we start driving in the elements again the swirls will start to appear again no matter how careful your are.

 

I've decided to adopt a few members ideas and they are 90% is just fine as it beats most every cars finish out there as a DD, and I've learned to accept the above and call it job done. This may not work for all but it allows me to live life not live for my cars finish which again is better then most.

[02Xtreme07ss]

Perfect paint is a commitment and if you drive your car everyday, it's next to impossible. It can be done, but if you are married, have kids, go to school, don't have a garage or have a full time job, I don't see how. I have none of those things so for me, it's rather easy.

 

There is only one way you can make this work...I have...but barely...

 

MAKE SURE HER VEHICLE IS AS PERFECT AS YOURS!!!

 

Even then...it's a tough sell.

[Junkman2008]

You don't need to take a rotary to it at all. A PC will remedy your situation. The first thing you need to do is recognize that your washing and dust removal techniques are creating the problem. Once you correct those two aspects of your detailing regiment, you can then fix the problem once and for all using the techniques that I show in my videos.

[radmanly]

I have EXACTLY this problem and it's been driving me nuts for 2 years! When I pull my car into the sunlight, it looks perfect (see attached photo) but under the bare bulb in the garage, I can see lots of tiny little microscratches. No matter how much or how carefully I polish, I can't seem to get rid of them. I don't have the skill or the guts to take a rotary to it but I can't just let it go, either!

 

Thanks, Adam, for recognizing and working on this problem. I love your products and wouldn't use anything else.

[Bobtorious]

Sorry to hear about the micro-scratches, and we are well aware of the reality. Some clear coats need more cutting power than the D/A polisher to correct. That's exactly why we have been testing other machines, and determining if they are safe enough for those of us who are not professional body shop types, and don't have years of experience with high-speed buffers, sandpaper, etc.

 

Stay tuned, and your call has been heard!

 

No need to apologize Adam. My car looks great (as can be seen in the link I posted to my first detail after bringing it home). The micro scratches really can't be seen unless you look at the paint from a certain angle. When I do this, my wife and my neighbors think I'm insane

[Moz]

Sorry to hear about the micro-scratches, and we are well aware of the reality. Some clear coats need more cutting power than the D/A polisher to correct. That's exactly why we have been testing other machines, and determining if they are safe enough for those of us who are not professional body shop types, and don't have years of experience with high-speed buffers, sandpaper, etc.

 

Stay tuned, and your call has been heard!

 

Hey that's great news Adam.I guess I will have to start putting more savings into my Adam's fund!

[Junkman2008]

One thing that you must note. Keeping you car swirl free is not a once a year/quarter/monthly activety. You have to constantly stay on top of that damage if you want the car to be swirl free. Every time I wash my car, I inspect it for paint damage. That may be twice a week. If I see anything, I immediately address it. That's why my damage appears to be so easy to fix. It is.

 

Another thing. The more you do this, the better you get at it. I seldom have to use anything more powerful than the PC and SHR because once I got the paint perfect, I've stayed on top of it since. Mind you, it took months to get it perfect because I had to learn how to use the PC and I was using a bunch of different brands of products. Now that I know what I'm doing, paint correction is much, much easier.

 

Another thing that I do not do is continually contribute to the things that create damage. I wash my car properly using the 2-bucket, 2 mitt process. The foam gun is always used. I also never wipe my car down to remove dust when there is dirt on the car. These are the little things that keep my paint looking flawless. It is these things that create the very damage that is being discussed in this thread. If you are not doing the preventive things that I have discussed, then you are contributing to the very damage that you despise.

 

Perfect paint is not for everyone. A lot of people don't have the time to spend 4 hours on their car twice a week just to wash and inspect the paint. Add to that time if you actually have to correct any part of the paint. Perfect paint is a commitment and if you drive your car everyday, it's next to impossible. It can be done, but if you are married, have kids, go to school, don't have a garage or have a full time job, I don't see how. I have none of those things so for me, it's rather easy.

 

As a matter of fact, I'm headed to the garage right now for some me time with my car.

[Adam]

Sorry to hear about the micro-scratches, and we are well aware of the reality. Some clear coats need more cutting power than the D/A polisher to correct. That's exactly why we have been testing other machines, and determining if they are safe enough for those of us who are not professional body shop types, and don't have years of experience with high-speed buffers, sandpaper, etc.

 

Stay tuned, and your call has been heard!

[3BVert]

I'm fighting the same thing on a black 2002 Corvette. My first paint correction was a 2007 Tahoe (Sport Red Metallic). On it I finally decided to just move on, correct the swirls and leave the "micro scratches" for another day. I hate to let them go on the Vette but I could spend all day on those scratches and never get past the hood. Junkman makes it look SO easy!

[Bobtorious]

Alright, I tried my best to get pictures. Here's the 3 I think show them. You have to look pretty hard

 

The first two have scratches right above and below the light. The thing the pictures don't show is how they keep extending beyond the light source to the right across the paint. The last one gives a better idea of the length. The scratch(es) are to the right of the light source in the last picture.

 

 

 

[1anonly]

Maybe it's something with the Camaro paint? I have a 2010 as well, and have seen the various threads on the paint issues with the car.

 

 

Earlier this week I was at a dealer looking at a new Corvette and they had a red Camaro SS with black stripes next to it. It was a partly cloudy day and the car was a little dirty....I could see the swirls in the hood plain as day. Maybe my eyes are trained to look for them now, but anyone could see these.

[Bobtorious]

I think I'm ailing from the same problem. I have taken before and after shots with my camera and seen amazing results! However, yesterday I was driving the G8 and had it parked outside in extreme sun, and I was then able to still see very fine swirls. Now I have not corrected the entire G8, but I have done the hood twice. The camera test made me believe it was near perfect, but under intense sun the results were enough to tick me off. The sections of the G8 that have not been corrected looked much worse.

 

Exactly! See my thread here showing pictures when I did my first paint correction after bringing the car home. Looks great on camera, but I know they're there!

 

Edit: probably helps if I link the thread http://www.adamsforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6219

[Bobtorious]

sounds like the ones i'm getting on my camaro at the moment. i havent tried to correct them yet, but from the sounds of the new BG, it might do the trick!

 

Maybe it's something with the Camaro paint? I have a 2010 as well, and have seen the various threads on the paint issues with the car.

[JPEGXP]

I think I'm ailing from the same problem. I have taken before and after shots with my camera and seen amazing results! However, yesterday I was driving the G8 and had it parked outside in extreme sun, and I was then able to still see very fine swirls. Now I have not corrected the entire G8, but I have done the hood twice. The camera test made me believe it was near perfect, but under intense sun the results were enough to tick me off. The sections of the G8 that have not been corrected looked much worse.

[Z71_Denali]

I will try sometime this weekend. The problem is, I have a really hard time capturing them on my weak Canon Powershot, even while it's set in macro mode. And, you can really only see them from a certain angle usually. Maybe I'm just too anal?

 

 

sounds like the ones i'm getting on my camaro at the moment. i havent tried to correct them yet, but from the sounds of the new BG, it might do the trick!

[Bobtorious]

I will try sometime this weekend. The problem is, I have a really hard time capturing them on my weak Canon Powershot, even while it's set in macro mode. And, you can really only see them from a certain angle usually. Maybe I'm just too anal?

[Chris@Adams]

Bob, Can you post up some pics so we can help you better?

[Bobtorious]

I have not tried tackling them with the small focal pads yet. I will have to give that a whirl and see what happens.

 

Thanks!