shane@detailedreflections

We typically do both as maintenance. The iron remover makes the clay process easier. It’s not necessarily required as much as it is convenient. Coatings get their hydrophobic properties from water contact angles. So the smaller the surface of water, the less friction it has to hang on. So coatings by nature are slick. Now put bonded contamination on the paint and it gets a bit rough and interferes with that contact angle increasing the surface area. All of a sudden, the water can cling to the surface. The same holds true of surface damage such as scratches or etching. Again, coatings are harder to damage but not impossible. The imperfections allow more for water to cling to. As an example, think of a freshly waxed floor. Pretty slick. Easy to fall on. Now scuff it up a bit with some contamination or some grippy texture tape and all of a sudden it’s not so slippery. Remove the tape, and the slippery condition is restored. Coated vehicles contaminate slower than non coated, but they do contaminate and will require maintenance. This is true regardless of whatever hype is out there (and some companies make some crazy claims). Hope this clears it up a bit.

Just wanted to clear up a few misconceptions about coatings given your experience. Coatings get contaminated less quickly than non coated vehicles due to their hydrophobic, “self cleaning” properties. This doesn’t translate to not needing to be decontaminated. We recommend clients with coated vehicles to come back yearly so we can properly clay and decontaminate as needed. In that process if a light polish needs to be done we will, or even to reapply the top coat. Many professional grade coatings are applied in layers so that the top layer can be damaged/removed/replaced as needed. We don’t charge extra for that once a client has a coating done. We simply do what needs to be done for our clients. Most professional base layers are difficult to remove...think wetsanding. Polishing lightly is adequate, especially if you’re reapplying a top layer. If your vehicle went two years without the proper maintenance, I’m not surprised it doesn’t act like when it was new. My feeling is some decontamination and a light polish and that action comes back. The number one cause of people people who have coated vehicles and think the product has failed is that the surface needs to be decontaminated. Once you get contamination on the surface, it won’t act like when it was freshly installed as it’s not the same surface it was. A decontamination and a little top layer maintenance and you’re good to go! Despite marketing hype, coatings can be damaged and they do require maintenance. It’s just a different maintenance schedule than a non coated vehicle.

Mostly this. You can layer your way to a haze with most products. Once sealant is down, I’d top it with a thin layer or two of wax. Think of the wax as a sacrificial layer that will be added/maintained between details. The sealant is the protection layer between paint and elements and you want to preserve as much as possible. Glaze is a great product, but has a lifespan measured in days. Guard and gloss can be used as a primary sealant, but we much prefer a traditional sealant for that initial layer. We do use guard and gloss on wheels. It’s easy to overthink the layers. People get confused because this product or that product are out and they have to use them. Not every product from a product line fits in your work flow. I can’t think of a single product line we have every one that they offer. Some just don’t fit or don’t make sense.

Voids are spots where the paint is missing like chips, failure or deep scratches. Polishing is a clear coat process. Once the clear coat is gone, polishing can’t happen.

Your process is good. The use of finishing polish is up to you and if you’re satisfied with the results of the single step. Is it clear? No haze? Glossy enough? If so, seal it and wax it. If not, refine the finish with the use of finishing polish before sealing and waxing. Black cars are almost always get the finishing polish step though. Cutting corners on black usually shows down the line.

There’s a few years. Some people say vinegar diluted will do it. We use a combination of steam and hot water extraction with a good carpet cleaner and agitation.

The maximum time for us depends on what we are trying to accomplish. If you want a truly flawless finish, it takes as many hours as needed. A typical one step polish and interior detail takes about 4-5 hours with two of us. That’s wheels, wash, iron, clay, polish/seal, interior, glass, trim... Some interiors only take an hour, some take five or six or longer depending on how bad it is. Ceramic coating a vehicle takes us at least the better part of a day. Sometimes two or three.

Thanks @falcaineer. We use suedes from another vendor and we do toss them after a ceramic install. For us it’s a “cost of doing business.” I admittedly haven’t checked the price of Adams suedes, but the ones we use are affordable. We use suede, low microfiber and another low microfiber in our ceramic installs. So three towel system. Each extending out further than the last.

You ask good questions. Durability is difficult to say because there are so many factors. I think your plan of maintaining with ceramic spray coating is a good one. Adam’s claims roughly two years I believe. Some people get more, some less. It is a consumer grade product. You’re trading ease of installation and it being forgiving for less durability. If you’re looking long term, and don’t want to reapply it might be worth having a warrantied coating installed. I’m not familiar with the ones you mentioned so I can’t attest to their durability. Working with pro grade coatings though I can say there is a definite difference between pro and consumer. Most people who think they have a failed coating simply have a dirty coating. They need maintenance. They need to be decontaminated and cleaned. And some need top agents reapplied occasionally. The coating tends to be fine. Just dirty.

It sounds like you already asked for a refund, which is good I think since it truly sounds like the product isn’t what you expected it to be. The other coating you mentioned is a good one. When shopping prices, break it down to price per milliliter as the bottle sizes may vary. It’s the only true comparison of cost. I think part of the issues that arise are misconceptions. It’s “ceramic so it has to be good” type of scenario. Ceramics are very good. However they aren’t perfect. In creating the spray coating, it’s a much thinner application and I would guess a lighter concentration than the true coating. So knowing that, I would automatically adjust my durability assumptions downward. You compared it to the Meguiars Hybrid Spray Wax. Ceramic spray coating would function as little more than a spray wax. It’s easy to put down an uneven application of it due to spraying it (try spraying something even and ensuring complete coverage without soaking everything around it). Part of the full ceramic process is slow methodical application. That’s a large part of the success. I’m also going to add that there are significant differences between consumer grade coatings (those being discussed here) and professional grade coatings. The application is similar but the chemistry is not, and with that they are less forgiving. If you want that easy maintenance, apply a true ceramic coating (or have one done) and then it’ll be simple enough to maintain giving you exactly what you want. In my opinion (and I realize it’s not marketed this way) the ceramic spray is a better maintenance product than a primary product. Just my two cents on that. Not every product is going to meet everyone’s expectations. I can tell you we have tried a lot of products and been unimpressed. It’s part of learning. We learn what to do and what not to do...or use in this case. At least you know this one isn’t for you!

What he said!

I’m with the others. You’re comparing apples to oranges and expecting the same thing. Ceramic spray is an easy application that leaves a thin coating. It is great for maintenance of coatings in my opinion. It is not a replacement for a true ceramic. The prep is the same to achieve a good finish. The quality of the finish is a result of good surface prep and polishing. Not the product itself. The product is the lock on the finish. When you say the ceramic spray is put to the test, what are the parameters and measurement of success/failure? I ask because I haven’t seen the videos, so it’s difficult to quantify their results. I’m going to ask a different question...what are your goals for a product/finish? That becomes easier to see what fits for you once that’s defined.

Is your chrome clear coated? If it is, it will polish with regular paint polishes. If it’s bare chrome, the metal polish will do the trick. If you’re not sure, take some metal polish on a rag and try it. If it comes up black or dark grey it’s bare metal and you’re good to go. If it doesn’t, use regular polish.

A coating generally doesn’t change the shade of the color unless it’s a matte finish. Matte finishes tend to darken a bit and become slightly more glossy. Gloss paint just tends to stay glossy.

If you’re going to layer it, why not just install the full coating and use spray for maintenance? To be done correctly, the prep is the same.

Agreed. Every client gets fresh product. It’s what they are paying us for to start with. And I don’t want to cross contaminate anything. It’s piece of mind that every client got what they should have...first appointment or last appointment. The same applies to towels and pads as well. Fresh, clean for every vehicle.

Food for thought about your practice. You’re blowing drying air through the same hose used to vacuum that traps dirt. You’re pulling fine grains of vacuum debris back out of the hose and sending them at your finish at a high velocity. I’m not a fan of using vac/blowers to dry cars for that reason, even with purpose assigned hoses. Things will slip passed. I’d hate to see someone inflict damage on a finish they created before even enjoying it.

Let’s follow up with a whole bunch more information about what paint correction is, and when it should (and shouldn’t be applied). Paint correction is not a magic bullet. It’s not something that can be done unlimited times. Paint correction works by removing clear coat in order to remove defects in your paint. Most of the UV protection of your paint comes in the first 1/3 of the clearcoat. Knowing that, we don’t want to remove more than that over the LIFETIME of the vehicle. Once you reduce the UV protection you accelerate clearcoat failure requiring a repaint. Paint correction also serves to level the clearcoat on a vehicle increasing the glossy look of the finish. This is why even brand new vehicles benefit from polishing. Modern paint systems are a three part system. They consist of a primer, base coat (color) and clear coat. Older paints may be single stage in nature mixing the clear and paint layers. On top of your paint sits a variety of contamination and defects typically. Contamination on the paint is generally tackled with washing, iron remover and clay. When we talk about defects, there’s spider webs which are microscratches, deep scratches which may or not be able to be taken care of without repainting and other forms of defects as illustrated below. When paint correcting we are only working with the clear coat. So as you can see, the deep scratches can’t be fixed. And some that are just in the clear coat shouldn’t be fixed for fear of striking through or removing too much clear accelerating failure. So you get a car, and you paint correct it. You’ve removed a little clear coat. You use good technique in washing and over time you develop damage (it happens no matter what we do). You polish again. But because you’ve used good technique along the way, you only need a finish polish to take a little clear coat off. Using this methodology you can get a long time with out of your paint and great looks. The other scenario is you perform a paint correction and you take it through the automatic car wash. You damage your finish over time. You then need a full correction to repair the damage which takes off more of the clear coat. When approached this way, you’re going to burn through more clear coat or get less corrections. So the ultimate answer to your question is to correct as infrequently as possible to preserve the clear coat. We use a paint thickness gauge to know what we are doing to a clients paint (or what they’ve done to it already). We are not opposed to using a fine polish a couple times a year. It leaves a satisfactory finish for most clients without significantly shortening the life of the paint. We will sometimes use a compound in isolated spots to handle concentrated damage as opposed to going all in everywhere. Hope this is helpful.

Simoniz glass coat is a coating, just not a good one. Auto dealers are generally the only ones who use it and the installation process is generally watered down because, well...new car and all that. And it’s low cost and super high margin since they just build it into the price of the deal. Simoniz comes off quickly with a polish. So it’s easy to work with. Or it won’t take long to wear off. If someone is considering a coating, skip simoniz and have an actually installer install one. You’ll be far happier with the product. Being that it currently has the coating, I would lean towards the ceramic line of products. The wax, boost, etc. It’s the best fit as the car sits now.

The clinic is coming up in a little over a month. So far only a couple of confirmations of attendance. Theres also been no submissions for the coating/interiors to be done! Just a reminder to RSVP and submit!

Food for thought... Longevity as it applies to detailing products is purely subjective. The variables in environments are numerous and make it really difficult to quantify how long a product will last. Hot environments are hard on waxes. Chemically harsh environments (think those with snow) are also harsh, but in a different way. Try different products and see what works for you. What works for someone else may not be the best for you. And what’s best for you may not be good for someone else. You will also learn a ton about detailing and products through actually trying them and forming your own opinions. Part of what we do as a business is test products and processes to see what ultimately works for us and our clients. We never fail to learn something in the process.

If you’re using Ceramic Boost as a sealant, the Spray Wax isn’t needed quite honestly. They have two different bases and serve the same purpose. While you could use them both, you won’t find much benefit (if any).

Some good questions @RayS! Let’s take them in order. Coated PPF will remove just like standard PPF. If we were doing a PPF replacement that’s been coated, honestly we would polish down the entire panel, remove the film, reinstall and then reapply the coating. Reapplying to the entire panel will ensure it’s a nice, even look. By removing the PPF and taking the whole panel down, you also alleviate the need to exactly line up the film as it was. Different patterns, installation, etc can change alignment. As you saw in the time lapse, I even peeled it once to make it align better to where I wanted. Headlights are hard on PPF. It’s a combination of the heat and light causing a breakdown. Newer films are guaranteed against yellowing, but I don’t think I’d realistically expect that out headlight films honestly. I’m a realist and try not to sell our clients on snake oil claims. There are now some coatings specific to films. Our supplier just released one, but it’s claimed at two years on films (this includes wraps). It’s just a bit more flexible of a coating. We don’t plan to use much of that, we will keep to business as usual for better durability.

So a misconception is that your "shine" is provided by last step products (LSP). That's actually not true. It's more like a small additive at the end. High quality gloss is provided by exceptional paint preparation and polishing. We could show you cars that have zero protection and you'd swear they have an amazing LSP on them. It's all in the preparation leading up to it. Once your paint is polished to perfection (or satisfaction), then you can start to layer up the protection. The reality is you won't see much difference between CSC and wax. Given that it doesn't see much weather (if any), a wax is a much simpler routine to go with that comes with a simpler installation. Ceramic coatings can provide deep gloss in theory, but they're really just locking that gloss up. The effect comes from the process. And CSC isn't a true, full coating. Hope this helps.

I know some people here are interested in some PPF and have asked questions about it so while working on a gorgeous 2015 Chevy Corvette Z06 with a Z07 package (silver with a red interior), I figured I'd make a quick time lapse of installing a piece of film. We still have more film to install on this car, but this was just one piece to kind of show the process for how PPF is laid down after it's been cut. And yes, at one point I completely removed the film and put it back down. I wasn't happy with an edge alignment and that it would let me work all of the water out of the edge to get a good adhesion without it lifting back up immediately creating fingers, or later in life when it would come back to me. Once this car is done, it'll be coated in ceramic. The wheels are already done, the windshield is already done as well and it's all been polished out. Hopefully you enjoy and don't hesitate to ask questions. PPF Fender Time Lapse.mp4