A couple Americana issues

[sherr20]

I just got home from Iraq last monday and went right to work on my cars. (No offense to the wife, she just has them washed) My Audi Q7 is metallic black and has flawless paint as I did the swirl and haze remover, Fine machine polish, and Americana treatment right before I left. My wife drove the car but never had it washed as she only drove it on nice days. It is garaged all the time and the garage in the heat of Texas I'm sure was hot this summer.

 

After washing it I looked at the hood under the lights of the garage and just saw a very 'fogged' haze on the hood. It looked like the hood had fine condensation on it. I got out my detail spray and tried it, the haze was still there. So I got out the fine machine polish and white pad and went at it. Immediately the haze was gone. I then added two coats of Americana. It looked great again....until the next day when I went to the garage the haze or fog look was back. So I did the fine machine polish again but this time just used the machine wax followed a couple days later by Brilliant spray glaze. The haze has gone and has not come back.

 

Could the Americana be the actual culprit?

 

Also my tub of Americana is concave on the sides now, kinda hour glass shaped and the lid is very hard to get off. Anyone else have the container get out of shape on them?

 

Thanks

[Kustom_FX]

WoW! I am floored by this post.. I have not had 1 issue with any Adams product I have used that I have determined through help from this forum that was more of my technique being the problem than the item. Like Adam said you can not please everyone, but WOW does he try!

[EdH63]

Wow Ed!!

 

You are very knowledgable.

 

Since you are suppose to learn something new everyday...I think you have made my day complete with some of your information.

 

 

I am positive you won't be disappointed in your Adam's purchase.

 

 

 

Nice write up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your not a spy are you??

 

Thanks, and no you silly wabbit, I'm not a spy... lol!

 

I'm a guy that has been doing this for a long time and has worked in paint shops for a number of years. My company is almost 30 years old and we are a direct manufacturer of these types of products. We're not a giant company, about 100 employees, but we generate around 10 million per quarter in revenue. That number continues to increase. Adam's has a more specialized line as it relates to the "detail products" line than we do and that's why I'm purchasing some from this company. My company specializes in manufacturing a sealant line based on other technologies outside of water based, paraffin based, silicone based, Teflon based and acrylic based waxes. We tag a warranty to the sealants that allow the consumer to have repainting on the exterior and replacing on the interior done if the product fails to live up to the specifications (nothing's bullet proof). We also administer the claims nationally. Last year we spent 1.2 million in claims nationally taking care of business. It's all about the molecular structure that determines the strength and longevity of your sealant. The smaller the molecule, the more protection you can force into the cup of the pore in the paint. More product in the pore means longer life expectancies and more durability to weather the elements.

 

Adam's taps a retail market, and I tap into a different market. The cool thing is I've come to a place (here) that can provide me with a great topical product that can go over my product and keep the shine that I want year round. Adam's serves a great purpose and has obviously put a lot of thought into the psychological aspect of this industry. By scenting your product appropriately, you create a desire by the end user. The olfactories are a very powerful human asset. They can determine the mood and attitude of a human by the mere scent of something. They can also mentally connect you to something in your past, good or bad. It stands to reason that if you scent a product pleasantly you are going to have to spend a few hours around and work hard with, you would want to try and put that user in the best possible mindset so he or she will feel they've had a most excellent experience at the end of the job (hence resulting in the desire to repurchase).

 

Think about it, at the end of the detail not only do you have an extreme sense of self satisfaction because of the visual results, but you are also left with a wonderful aroma that has filtered its way and embedded itself deep within your nostrils. The scent in relation to a satisfying job will manifest a psychological result that connects the "feel-good" with the Adam's product line. People aren't repurchasing only because the product works well. They repurchase also on the premise that it smells good too (consciously or subconsciously). Isn't marketing wonderful!

 

Ok, I know I've probably lost your attention a long time ago, but bottom line, I appreciate these types of companies (Adam's). They provide a high quality product, offer all the support and advise they can to support that product and they do it with a great attitude in a friendly and non-confrontational environment. This is a very good recipe for success... obviously.

 

I'm no threat here. I'm simply someone that has a great deal of tenure and knowledge in this industry that is impressed by this company. If I were Adam's reading this, I would look at me as an advocate.

 

My granddad used to say something to me when I was a kid when we would go fishing. He would say, "Son, fisherman's luck is a wet butt and a hungry gut". What he was telling me was life is never about how many fish you can catch, rather more about the fishing. The experience of all that we do and what we go through can connect us on deeper levels as human beings. I choose to connect in positives ways, so my intentions will always be honorable here.

 

[coolth]

WOW!! Ed nice write up

[THE Mook]

ive bought 3 cases of americana... never a issue...

 

even converted a optimum user to it...

 

 

Addressing the OP's issue, I'd like to see if I can help you understand this. First, I have worked in this industry for over 20 years, running my own detail company and working in the automotive industry for many years also. I have used many different lines of products out there and I have worked for a company for the last 17 years that manufactures its own line of detail products and sealants for vehicles, inside and out. I understand the chemistry end of these products and the "reactions" that take place when using certain chemical components over others. This is not an "Adam's problem", rather this is a problem when typically incorporating too much of certain chemical components on top of each other creating a buildup of silicone slurring.

 

Americana is carnauba, a natural plant extract from the Brazilian palm leaf. It's refined in a variety of ways and serves many purposes. I can't say I know the exact formulation of Adam's version of carnauba wax, but I can tell by the scent of their carnauba it has a probable high percentage of refined palm extract in it. As with any refined product, there will be some fillers that are added to create added strength in the manufacturing stages to bring it from a raw state to the finished state, and there will be added ingredients to help shelf life so the product stays fresh as long as it can.

 

I agree with Adam, so many variables play into this that can create adverse reactions that it's very hard to put your finger on one certain thing that may cause an issue. I will say this though, heat is your biggest killer of these types of products. I would always recommend you keep any of these types of products in a temperature controlled environment and ALWAYS keep the lids and caps closed on the product too. There are always going to be certain light solvents that are crucial in keeping these types of products performing up to specification, so if you leave them open, then you allow some of these solvents to flash off and it diminishes the performance and functionality of the product.

 

Now, let's look at what might be happening here, which I've seen in other similar lines of products from other retailers in this market. DS (Detail Spray) is simply a very low viscous fluid comprised of a few different ingredients. My company manufactures a similar spray and others like Adam's make this too. We all manufacture it typically to different specifications dependent on the market you sell to and the purpose it will be used. These detail sprays have two main ingredients that create the instant shine and gloss we all desire from them... silicone & glycerin. Different manufacturers will blend different percentages of these two ingredients to get the desired marketable shine they would like to provide to an end user. Detail sprays are fantastic products to give a quick and palatable result, however, if you're applying it over an existing wax or sealer that already have a couple of grades of 2000 and/or 3000 grade active silicone's in them, your results may very well be shadowing, marbling, hazing or clouding.

 

Anytime you're working with paraffin based, carauba based, teflons and acrylic based products, you are creating buildup everytime you reapply and do not strip before reapplication. Over time this will cause these adverse reactions we're talking about here. The very product that's designed to work for you is going to work against you if you don't take the time to prep prior to reapplication. So, the moral here is more is not better, often. As is preached on these forums by detailers that have a pretty strong knowledge base and skill level, take time to prep and less is better in application. Keep in mind the first thin wipe of wax is what bonds to the paint. Anything over that is buildup and dust and will make you work that much harder.

 

Adding DS, silicone, over the top of carauba can very well cause adverse reactions. The reactions will also be contingent upon humidity, heat, cold, amount of product applied and the way it is even brought back off the car.

 

I use buffers in every aspect of the detail. Why? Because when you spin the wheel you are creating heat and friction. These two dynamics can be your friend and they can be your worst nightmare. It is up to the pilot to determine the outcome. Wheeling the product off the car rather than hand jobbing it, so to speak, is going to result in a more uniformed removal and a higher lever of gloss. This is just what happens with machining the paint, and it is the nature of the paint to react accordingly.

 

I would be remiss if I didn't chime in here and try to help someone understand that, like Adam stated above, there really are so many variables that determine the outcome of the finished product... no matter what you use.

 

I will say this, I did use the Americana last weekend for the first time in the garage; in the shade; in and around about a 75 degree morning, and I did bring the Americana off by hand, pulled the car into the sunlight to give it the old once over, and saw that I had some hand haze where I rubbed into the paint. This was done in the morning and I waited until that evening and then went back over it with BG and it laid that carnauba down after it had a chance to cure a few hours. A very thin coat of Americana is what I would recommend when using it. You just have to monitor that and keep thinking about it throughout the detail. Your applicator will load up eventually, actually quickly, with "enough" product, and then you need to stop plunging it back into the can so often. It just requires training your brain to think less is better when it comes to this type of work.

 

I'm pretty darn impressed so far with the Adam's line, and as much as I've heard about the DS around here, I just ordered my first round of DS and went ahead and bypassed the 16oz bottle and just dived into a gallon of it. It will probably show-up tomorrow some time on the doorstep.

 

Sometimes detailing is a series of "OH CRAPS" and "DOHS" until you get the feel and the right finesse down. I think one important thing to remember is that all of these types of products are designed to give good results. Much of your outcome will be a result of your physical input and skill set.

.

 

and learned. Thank You.

[70'sChevyGirl]

Wow Ed!!

 

You are very knowledgable.

 

Since you are suppose to learn something new everyday...I think you have made my day complete with some of your information.

 

 

I am positive you won't be disappointed in your Adam's purchase.

 

 

 

Nice write up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your not a spy are you??

[EdH63]

Addressing the OP's issue, I'd like to see if I can help you understand this. First, I have worked in this industry for over 20 years, running my own detail company and working in the automotive industry for many years also. I have used many different lines of products out there and I have worked for a company for the last 17 years that manufactures its own line of detail products and sealants for vehicles, inside and out. I understand the chemistry end of these products and the "reactions" that take place when using certain chemical components over others. This is not an "Adam's problem", rather this is a problem when typically incorporating too much of certain chemical components on top of each other creating a buildup of silicone slurring.

 

Americana is carnauba, a natural plant extract from the Brazilian palm leaf. It's refined in a variety of ways and serves many purposes. I can't say I know the exact formulation of Adam's version of carnauba wax, but I can tell by the scent of their carnauba it has a probable high percentage of refined palm extract in it. As with any refined product, there will be some fillers that are added to create added strength in the manufacturing stages to bring it from a raw state to the finished state, and there will be added ingredients to help shelf life so the product stays fresh as long as it can.

 

I agree with Adam, so many variables play into this that can create adverse reactions that it's very hard to put your finger on one certain thing that may cause an issue. I will say this though, heat is your biggest killer of these types of products. I would always recommend you keep any of these types of products in a temperature controlled environment and ALWAYS keep the lids and caps closed on the product too. There are always going to be certain light solvents that are crucial in keeping these types of products performing up to specification, so if you leave them open, then you allow some of these solvents to flash off and it diminishes the performance and functionality of the product.

 

Now, let's look at what might be happening here, which I've seen in other similar lines of products from other retailers in this market. DS (Detail Spray) is simply a very low viscous fluid comprised of a few different ingredients. My company manufactures a similar spray and others like Adam's make this too. We all manufacture it typically to different specifications dependent on the market you sell to and the purpose it will be used. These detail sprays have two main ingredients that create the instant shine and gloss we all desire from them... silicone & glycerin. Different manufacturers will blend different percentages of these two ingredients to get the desired marketable shine they would like to provide to an end user. Detail sprays are fantastic products to give a quick and palatable result, however, if you're applying it over an existing wax or sealer that already have a couple of grades of 2000 and/or 3000 grade active silicone's in them, your results may very well be shadowing, marbling, hazing or clouding.

 

Anytime you're working with paraffin based, carnauba based, Teflons and acrylic based products, you are creating buildup everytime you reapply and do not strip before reapplication. Over time this will cause these adverse reactions we're talking about here. The very product that's designed to work for you is going to work against you if you don't take the time to prep prior to reapplication. So, the moral here is more is not better, often. As is preached on these forums by detailers that have a pretty strong knowledge base and skill level, take time to prep and less is better in application. Keep in mind the first thin wipe of wax is what bonds to the paint. Anything over that is buildup and dust and will make you work that much harder.

 

Adding DS, silicone, over the top of carauba can very well cause adverse reactions. The reactions will also be contingent upon humidity, heat, cold, amount of product applied and the way it is even brought back off the car.

 

I use buffers in every aspect of the detail. Why? Because when you spin the wheel you are creating heat and friction. These two dynamics can be your friend and they can be your worst nightmare. It is up to the pilot to determine the outcome. Wheeling the product off the car rather than hand jobbing it, so to speak, is going to result in a more uniformed removal and a higher level of gloss. This is just what happens with machining the paint, and it is the nature of the paint to react accordingly.

 

I would be remiss if I didn't chime in here and try to help someone understand that, like Adam stated above, there really are so many variables that determine the outcome of the finished product... no matter what you use.

 

I will say this, I did use the Americana last weekend for the first time in the garage; in the shade; in and around about a 75 degree morning, and I did bring the Americana off by hand, pulled the car into the sunlight to give it the old once over, and saw that I had some hand haze where I rubbed into the paint. This was done in the morning and I waited until that evening and then went back over it with BG and it laid that carnauba down after it had a chance to cure a few hours. A very thin coat of Americana is what I would recommend when using it. You just have to monitor that and keep thinking about it throughout the detail. Your applicator will load up eventually, actually quickly, with "enough" product, and then you need to stop plunging it back into the can so often. It just requires training your brain to think less is better when it comes to this type of work.

 

I'm pretty darn impressed so far with the Adam's line, and as much as I've heard about the DS around here, I just ordered my first round of DS and went ahead and bypassed the 16oz bottle and just dived into a gallon of it. It will probably show-up tomorrow some time on the doorstep.

 

Sometimes detailing is a series of "OH CRAPS" and "DOHS" until you get the feel and the right finesse down. I think one important thing to remember is that all of these types of products are designed to give good results. Much of your outcome will be a result of your physical input and skill set.

[Moz]

ive bought 3 cases of americana

 

:jawdrop:, Nice !

[Faze]

ive bought 3 cases of americana... never a issue...

 

even converted a optimum user to it...

[Team Adam's]

So after using DS as a wetting agent on my buffer pads with SHR or FMP wipe the panels down with IPA before applying Americana correct?

 

Couldn't hurt, but really the DS added in the polishing process isn't being allowed to leave any of the glossing agent behind as the pads would abrade it away.

 

I'd just avoid using it to remove the polish. Dry removal is best IMO and if you've worked the polish completely there should be absolutely no reason to use DS to remove it.

[1anonly]

Jerry, that might be overkill but I would say it will leave your paint completely naked.

[sherr20]

So after using DS as a wetting agent on my buffer pads with SHR or FMP wipe the panels down with IPA before applying Americana correct?

[Team Adam's]

I'd suspect either too heavy of coats being laid down or you're getting a reaction between the detail spray and the wax.... in any event guys we offer a 110% money back guarantee for a reason. If you're convinced its the wax we'd prefer to refund your purchase rather than have you be unhappy.

 

I will say given the sheer number of pots of this product that are out there (thousands) and the number of extremely satisfied customers who use it regularly its highly unlikely there any issue with the product itself.

 

Try stripping the panel with an IPA wipedown instead of needlessly polishing over and over and over again.

 

Directly after IPA apply a THIN coat of product to the area, allow a few moments for it to cure, then wipe away using only a dry towel. No detail spray. Reactions between the gloss enhancers in the DS and the carnuba in the wax have been known to happen on rare occasions. Using both closely together could be your issue.

 

India Pale Ale

 

No, really, it's isopropyl alcohol. I use the 91% and mix it 1:1 with water. You can get it at any drug store or supermarket. It will allow you to strip a panel without having to do a full wash(assuming the panel is already clean to begin with).

 

Bingo IPA = Isopropyl Alcohol - like 08G8V8 suggested, a higher concentration you'll cut with water, some stores sell a 60-70% version that you can pretty much use right out of the bottle.

 

Its just a way to completely strip and clean a panel down when you don't want to have to strip wash the entire car.

 

As for the DS / Americana reactivity, they don't have to be wet to cause issues. Detail Spray has a gloss enhancer in it that is left behind on the finish when you wipe the car down. If you're applying APW over the top of that there is a potential issue. Doesn't happen to everyone or happen often, but it does happen on occasion.

[08G8V8]

 

Lastly Dylan, I know most meanings here, DS, SHR, FMP.......whats IPA??? :help:

 

 

India Pale Ale

 

No, really, it's isopropyl alcohol. I use the 91% and mix it 1:1 with water. You can get it at any drug store or supermarket. It will allow you to strip a panel without having to do a full wash(assuming the panel is already clean to begin with).

[sherr20]

First off, thank you Adam for personally adding comment to my thread. Not many business owners will ever answer customers comments or questions directly. Second, personally I am not dissatisfied with any of my Adams products, I love them all. After coming home from Iraq and being used to smelling that dry dirt smell for so long washing and cleaning with these products is a feast for the nose, I wanted to drink the window cleaner. I am just looking for answers on what I may be doing wrong or what went wrong and how I can fix it.

 

I will wash with dawn liquid and then progress through the steps again without DS before the Americana. So wiping down with DS before American although completely dry can still interfere with Americana? But let me be clear again, I have never had DS and Americana touch each other while in liquid form. The DS has been a wipe down and completely dry before the Americana was applied and I have never used DS to assist in removal of Americana. Now I have used DS after Americana, like 6 hours after application, when I had driven it after using a California duster.

 

 

Lastly Dylan, I know most meanings here, DS, SHR, FMP.......whats IPA??? :help:

[Adam]

Sorry to hear about the issues here friends! Indeed, the Americana is a thick carnauba paste, and it does build up.

 

We have given refunds or replacements on several tubs of Americana, less than six I believe. Since introducing the product, we have sold roughly 2,500 tubs.

 

One thing is for absolute sure: We cannot please everyone, certainly not all the time! The perfect storm, the combination of weather, vehicle condition, product used, product chosen, etc., can result in so-so results.

 

There are an infinite number of vehicle conditions, combined with weather, product storage, vehicle storage, and detailing process used.

 

We do offer the guarantee for that reason, as it's perfectly impossible to create a perfect product for every application, on every vehicle, in every imaginable climate or weather condition.

 

The Americana performs better than any premium paste wax I've used, including the ultra-high-end pastes, which cost more than 20X our Paste Wax.

 

Still, I would rather please everyone, regardless of how our products perform, or fail to perform, which is the reasoning behind the 110% guarantee.

 

Our goal, to earn the business of everyone who enjoys detailing their own vehicles. With input, we make changes to products, and these improvements help us offer what I believe, the best total line of car care products available.

 

When a complaint or return level gets to 1/2 of 1% of a product sold, we stop selling, and reformulate, making immediate changes. At this point, on the Americana, the fail/return rate is less than 1/100th of 1%.

 

The tub used can warp if exposed to temperatures above 85-90 degrees, and that can make the tub tough to open.

We are working on that!

 

We want our customers to be 110% satisfied, or we'll make it right. Even if that means, refunding 110% of the purchase to keep you as a satisfied customer.

 

Again, thank you for your business, and I apologize results achieved with our Paste was not excellent.

 

-Adam:thumbsup:

[Team Adam's]

Sorry you feel that way Bill... the truth of the matter is that we offer that guarantee as part of keeping customers satisfied. I mention it b/c it was very clear from the tone of your post you were not.

 

If a select few people have an unusual issue or seem to have difficulty using the products appropriately I take it you suggest we should design the product despite the overwhelming popularity to the contrary? That would be the complete opposite of your supposed goal to "improve the product". Its impossible to please 100% of the people 100% of the time, but it seems that we do a fine job of pleasing 99% of the people 99% of the time, if you fall into that 1% I'm sorry, but again, that is the E X A C T reason the 110% satisfaction guarantee exists.

 

If our responses to your complaints or level of support don't please you then perhaps we are not the company thru which you should be buying your detailing products. The forum is a place for constructive feedback, absolutely, but we're not in the business of reformulating a product b/c one or 2 people seem to have difficulty using the product. I'd much prefer to offer potential solutions (as I did in my post) or get to the bottom of WHY the issue is occurring for an individual when so many others don't experience that problem. If we can't find a fix, then theres the guarantee to lean on to get your money back and put it towards something that did work for you.

 

Like I mentioned before, the praise and popularity of Americana is overwhelmingly contrary to what you mentioned both in enthusiast circles as well as professionals that use it.

 

Perhaps it simply isn't the product for you? Its not the huff and puff you make it seem.

 

I'd suspect either too heavy of coats being laid down or you're getting a reaction between the detail spray and the wax.... in any event guys we offer a 110% money back guarantee for a reason. If you're convinced its the wax we'd prefer to refund your purchase rather than have you be unhappy.

 

I will say given the sheer number of pots of this product that are out there (thousands) and the number of extremely satisfied customers who use it regularly its highly unlikely there any issue with the product itself.

 

Try stripping the panel with an IPA wipedown instead of needlessly polishing over and over and over again.

 

Directly after IPA apply a THIN coat of product to the area, allow a few moments for it to cure, then wipe away using only a dry towel. No detail spray. Reactions between the gloss enhancers in the DS and the carnuba in the wax have been known to happen on rare occasions. Using both closely together could be your issue.

 

Please Bill, let me know where in this post I'm offering anything thats less than helpful or not suggesting solutions to the problem at hand?

[xlr8rvette]

Thank you for the responce Adam. Deleted the post. Sorry if offended anyone as that was not the intention.

[6spdg37s]

no americana issues over here... its been on my black vette since may/june and jeff and i were detailing the car in 100 degree weather. sounds like the DS combo with the Americana is causing the problem...

[GerryC]

Also my tub of Americana is concave on the sides now, kinda hour glass shaped and the lid is very hard to get off. Anyone else have the container get out of shape on them?

 

Thanks

my container is an absolute b!#ch to get open now, but it doesn't appear to have warped or changed shape. I can live with it.

 

The only issue I've had with Americana is if I miss a spot when removing the residue, which is very easy to do on a white car, and not finding it until a few days later

[Team Adam's]

I'd suspect either too heavy of coats being laid down or you're getting a reaction between the detail spray and the wax.... in any event guys we offer a 110% money back guarantee for a reason. If you're convinced its the wax we'd prefer to refund your purchase rather than have you be unhappy.

 

I will say given the sheer number of pots of this product that are out there (thousands) and the number of extremely satisfied customers who use it regularly its highly unlikely there any issue with the product itself.

 

Try stripping the panel with an IPA wipedown instead of needlessly polishing over and over and over again.

 

Directly after IPA apply a THIN coat of product to the area, allow a few moments for it to cure, then wipe away using only a dry towel. No detail spray. Reactions between the gloss enhancers in the DS and the carnuba in the wax have been known to happen on rare occasions. Using both closely together could be your issue.

[The Ryan]

^- If your dissatisfied with the Americana take advantage of Adam's 110% Guarantee.

[xlr8rvette]

I agree with sherr20 and the post he referred to. Had very similar situation.

Ended up stripping all the wax, claying and starting over. Was suspicious of the Americana and thought it may have been due too many coats on Vette

(as recall had 4 coats in about a 9 month period). Was also suspicious of the detail spray (experienced streaking and a similar dulling ). At that time alot of people were also having problems citing the short longevity of various products. Thus thought this may have been the issue, and orderred a fresh container of Americana.....After orderred decided to cancel the Americana but it had all ready shipped. I kept the Americana , however, have not used it on the Vette (except on the hood which I afterwards coverred with another product - see below).

 

After stripping and claying I polished by hand with the SHR and Revive but did not apply the Americana as wasn't comfortable with it. I used a different substance which has now been on the Vette for several months with no visual problems.

 

This difficulty only occured on the black Vette. The 2 lighter colored cars appeared okay (white and grey).

[Chris@Adams]

Try skipping the DS wipe down before applying your Americana, and maybe wait a day or so on your second coat.

 

Quote from Dylan

Are you using detail spray when applying or removing the product? It has been known to cause occasional issues as DS and APW don't always play nice together. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

__________________

[sherr20]

Probably 4 hours apart. 1 coat, bunch of honey do's, then did the second later in day. All inside my garage out of the sun. I always wipe down between SHR and FMP, and then Americana with detail spray to make sure previous product is off. The DS is completely dry and wiped off before I do the Americana and do not use DS to remove any Americana residue, just another clean double soft towel.

[Chris@Adams]

How close together did you apply your second coat of Americana?

Other words how long did you wait until you applied your second coat?