PC polishing issues...

[/dev/null]

After finally removing some nasty road paint overspray (idiots were spraying in the middle of traffic, but that's another story) I am in the middle of trying to polish the marks and marring out from the heavy claying I had to do to get the stuff off.

 

I picked up the full PC kit to get the paint looking good again but I am having some issues, some of which I am sure are related to technique (first detail with the PC, and on a black car no less).

 

While I am able to get most of the marks out with a couple of passes of SHR, even after several passes of fine machine polish I have tons of tiny microswirls noticable from about a foot away, they are like the swirls left from SHR but much more fine and I am 100% sure that they are not swirls that were already there before polishing since they are also in swirl free areas that I hit with the polisher to remove clay marring.

 

I initially started with the method shown in Adam's videos of an X of polish, shot of detail spray, and firm pressure on settings 5 and 6. I have since tried Junkman's method of detail spray, 4 pea size drops and 9-14lbs on setting 5, only adding 3 more drops when I can't get any more polish from a shot of detail spray. This seems to leave less noticeable microswirls but they are still there. I am working the polishes until they are a thin clear shiny film. Is it possible to overwork FMP?

 

Also the polished areas look noticeably more cloudy the the unpolished areas, they look like a lighter shade of black under bright light, the unpolished areas have a much deeper, darker, clearer look to them. Almost wishing that I had left the car as it was at this point.

 

Again, I am sure it is probably a technique issue, but the lighter color in the polished areas has me a little concerned. I would appreciate any tips from anyone that has dealt with either of these issues.

 

Thanks!

[Guest Gone & Forgotten]

Mmmmmm Buttery wax. Great on cars... horrible on popcorn.

 

Congrats on the progress, Ross.

 

My Camaro is my first black (detailed) vehicle too. My last two were Pewter (C5 vette) and Silver (Ram 1500 QC).... Real guitar players play PRS's, Real farmers use John Deere and real detail guys aren't afraid of Black!

 

Okay... I'm afraid of it... but I am the sort of guy who plays with a hang nail for hours before clipping it. I find pleasure in the pain.

[Junkman2008]

Yep, that's me! I have a 6 pack of Bud Ice in the fridge right now!

[Team Adam's]

... and beer. Because if you don't get it right the first time, get drunk, go in the house and try again tomorrow.

 

pfffft... I happen to know you don't drink beer... so I edited it for you.

 

... and fruity pink mixed beverage with an umbrella in it. Because if you don't get it right the first time, get sip a girly drink.

[Junkman2008]

...and dagwood pizza

 

[Z71_Denali]

As I've said many times before on this forum - the most important and frequently used tool in any detailers arsenal is patience.

 

... and beer. Because if you don't get it right the first time, get drunk, go in the house and try again tomorrow.

 

...and dagwood pizza

[irunnoft]

Sounds like maybe the pad was getting too dry with the FMP - stop working it a little sooner, and or give it a spritz of DS and then continue working it. Moist polish is necessary. Sounds like you are well on the way, keep at it, you'll nail it soon (and really fall in love with the PC).

 

keep at it. . . you'll nail it soon. . . . Ummm....things the 40 year old virgin hears. . . ahhhhh. . . pass!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry.....I've been up too long. Either that or spending too much time smelling all the wonderful Adam's Products!

 

 

Seriously, my first attempt wasn't perfect. I was doing some kind of Frankenstein technique hodge podge of Junkman's and Adam's technique. That doesn't work. Like yourself, I could see results after my first "attempt," but this just takes time and diligence. One thing I know after corresponding with Junkman in the form of a short novel, you have to be aware of every part of the technique. Everything needs to be purposeful and done properly. Remember, practice doesn't make perfect - perfect practice makes perfect! After I thought I was sure I knew Junkman's techniques, I watched the videos again and saw things I'd overlooked. My next time working on my black car, I did much better. Now I'm just waiting for Spring or some unseasonably warm weather and then I'm going to get back to correcting the paint on my SRT8.

 

Take your time. Actually look at what the results are of your work. Monitor your technique and you'll continually get better.

 

I like something in another post that I read that Junkman stated. It goes something like this: "Man, I wish they had the internet when I was learning all this stuff because it would've saved me a ton of money." We've got it made with this forum, all the videos and real pros like the members here who will actually take the time to correspond to a private message. . . no matter how many times they've been asked the question!

[irunnoft]

but I am the sort of guy who plays with a hang nail for hours before clipping it. I find pleasure in the pain.

 

Of course you know this makes you a sick, twisted freak!!!

[Junkman2008]

... As I've said many times before on this forum - the most important and frequently used tool in any detailers arsenal is patience.

 

... and beer. Because if you don't get it right the first time, get drunk, go in the house and try again tomorrow.

[Team Adam's]

It seems like I am finally making some progress with the FMP, that extra little bit of polish seems to be the difference between a decent finish and streaks that can only be removed by another pass, still have some microswirls but not as bad. Decided I am going to tackle this one panel at a time over a week or two. I put on a coat of buttery wax for now, looks a whole lot better with some wax on it.

 

Another option, and one I've mentioned in other threads is to do either a hand applied or gray pad applied pass of Revive polish AFTER Fine Machine. In some cases FMP fights removal a little. I typically see it in higher heat/humidity at shows. Since Revive is more of a paint cleanser it helps to remove that stubborn FMP residue if you run into it.

 

Keep at it and you'll get your technique down, don't be discouraged. Its rare anyone nails it 100% their first time out. If it were that easy guys like me and AJ would be pretty bored b/c no one would need our advice.

 

As I've said many times before on this forum - the most important and frequently used tool in any detailers arsenal is patience.

[Junkman2008]

... That's what works for me - but never mix techniques. If you're following anyone's technique - stick to THEIR technique only. Don't even introduce your own methods until you've had time behind the wheel of the polisher to find out what works for ya.

 

I'm glad someone is helping to get this VERY important advice out.

[Doug123]

Sounds like maybe the pad was getting too dry with the FMP - stop working it a little sooner, and or give it a spritz of DS and then continue working it. Moist polish is necessary. Sounds like you are well on the way, keep at it, you'll nail it soon (and really fall in love with the PC).

[crowvet]

Sounds like everyone has hit on most of your issues. The only thing I can add is to make ABSOLUTELY sure your pads aren't contaminated with anything, i.e. dust/dirt/sand/large rocks/broken glass/bones/silverware....

You forgot TEETH:D

[Team Adam's]

Sounds like everyone has hit on most of your issues. The only thing I can add is to make ABSOLUTELY sure your pads aren't contaminated with anything, i.e. dust/dirt/sand/large rocks/broken glass/bones/silverware....

[/dev/null]

It seems like I am finally making some progress with the FMP, that extra little bit of polish seems to be the difference between a decent finish and streaks that can only be removed by another pass, still have some microswirls but not as bad. Decided I am going to tackle this one panel at a time over a week or two. I put on a coat of buttery wax for now, looks a whole lot better with some wax on it.

[Guest Gone & Forgotten]

Either use Junkman's technique or Adam/Dylan's technique. DO NOT MIX TECHNIQUES!

 

I use the X when I'm first starting a fresh/new pad. The X primes the pad and from there - I just use DS to waken the product still on the pad or the 3-drops to keep moving.

 

I keep a garden sprayer (handheld pump bottle... not the kind with the hose/wand like used for bugs, but the smaller kind- 1/2 gallon model) with baby shampoo and water in my detail cart - when my pads seem dirty or clumpy - I stop - get a utility towel (costco towel for me) and lightly spritz the pad with the baby shampoo mix and then blot the pad with the towel until the pad is clean and mostly dry. Then I go back to partying again.

 

That's what works for me - but never mix techniques. If you're following anyone's technique - stick to THEIR technique only. Don't even introduce your own methods until you've had time behind the wheel of the polisher to find out what works for ya.

[DaveVY]

I don't know where you guys came up with the "small pea sized three drops" from.

 

Adam, himself, in his instructional videos uses an X.

 

I, myself, use a "smiley" face.

 

I use Adam's technique, the "x", but AJ/Junkman has a different technique where he uses the 3 pea sized drops.

 

I will try the smiley face technique next time to see if it makes the polishing more fun!

[Grubrunner]

I don't know where you guys came up with the "small pea sized three drops" from.

 

Adam, himself, in his instructional videos uses an X.

 

I, myself, use a "smiley" face.

[DaveVY]

Yes, you can overwork the fine machine polish and this is most obvious with dark cars. If you work it too long you end up with a dry pad which will then create very very fine swirls. When starting out I had to learn how to watch for the 'flash' and stop working past that point. Being in Florida and working in the heat made this learning curve tough. It is an art to learn to feel the product and realizing how temperature, humidity and sunshine will change how much detail spray you have to use and how often you need to use it.

[/dev/null]

OK, using 3 drops polish and one shot spray on a new pad on setting 5 moving 1"/sec with about 1 rotation/sec I went back to the SHR, looked about the same when I wiped it off as before with fine marks everywhere from the SHR. Followed up with the FMP using the same procedure for two passes and it is looking better, color still seems a bit lighter though. Applying the FMP like this it starts out very thin and I can't tell when it flashes even with my halogens. Is it possible to overwork the FMP or am I OK as long as I don't let it dry out?

[Chris@Adams]

I might add that most beginners make the mistake of moving too fast.Go back and do a 2x2 area, don't move on until you can correct it then you will know what you need to do for the rest of the car.

 

 

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[Doug123]

I would agree with RandyFox, you are probably using too much polish, which slows down the rate of correction and how well it cleans up. The pad does some of the work too, so using too much polish really slows down your progress. The pad and the polish work as a team.

 

When using 3 pea sized drops of polish (specifically SHR and Orange pad), I would alternate polish and DS, detail spray only, polish and DS, detail spray only when working an area. You don't want too little polish, nor too much polish. Without more photos and some sense of scale, I can't be sure what I am seeing in the photo.

 

I would believe that this was the result of too much polish, as you can get some pretty sharp light reflections just using the SHR/Orange pad on the PC. The SHR is the heavy hitter in this SHR & FMP combo, and FMP is the cleanup product, but it is limited in what it can do. Unless the swirls are very fine, FMP won't remove them. It is more of a product that cleans up what the SHR leaves behind.

 

Also, if you are seeing some 'short' swirls, they may be a deep part of the swirl that has been left behind after the initial polishing. Swirls have varying depth in the clear, so you may get the shallow part first, but to get the short deeper part, it may need more correction (another pass or 2) to clean it up to your standard.

 

FYI some cars also have harder clear coats that others, specifically (europeans) BMW, newer Audis, MB, and Corvettes and newer Cadillacs, so the correction will happen more slowly on these clear coats vs other clear coats.

 

Make sure that you are getting some rotation on the pad while polishing - Adam uses less rotation, Junkman uses more rotation, but there needs to be some rotation or you are using too much pressure. You probably won't want more than one rotation per second of the pad when polishing. Get a silver sharpie or a piece of masking tape and put a fat mark on the backing plate so you can monitor the rotation (pressure) while polishing. After more polishing, you will begin to get a feel for how much pressure is correct, and will watch the pad less and watch the finish more.

 

As far as when to apply polish, if I am working an area for a couple passes of SHR, I do 3 drops of polish & a spray of DS on the pad, work it to flash (clear and greazy), then just a spray of DS and then work that until flash, then wipe the test area and check your progress.

 

Let us know how you do -

[/dev/null]

Not the best picture but this sort of shows the difference in color. The upper part is untouched and the original color. The line down the middle and below was hit with FMP, it looks lighter (the specks are from the camera). It is not this noticeable in person, but there is a difference under bright light. And no, the rest of the car does not have those nasty looking scratches lol. I was not able to get a good picture of the microscratches. This is after IPA.

 

Edit: 99% sure the haze is coming from the FMP step somewhere. If I stop at SHR there are tons of small scratches from the polish but the paint does not look hazy and looks the original color.

 

 

[/dev/null]

Yeah, the X seemed like way too much product to me. I have since been using 4 pea sized drops on a clean pad with detail spray and only adding 3 more when I can't get any more out of the pad with detail spray. I don't think the hazing/cloudiness is from the polish residue unfortunately, even after an IPA wipe the polished areas look a different shade of black. Also while I was working on the hood after some passes I could see my crosshatch pattern from the FMP application even after an IPA wipedown, they only disappeared when I went over that spot again with FMP. I will try to get some pictures, but it is very hard to get on camera. Thanks

[randyfox]

The X pattern is for use on the Flex polisher, and the 3 pea sized drops are for the PC. It is entirely possible that what you are experiencing is a result too much product. As far as the cloudy appearance of the polished areas, I usually see this when I don't wipe away the residue thoroughly. I think others with black cars my be better suited to answer you better though. I also would suggest posting a couple pictures so that we can see exactly what you are seeing.