Adam Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Edited February 28, 2012 by Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dipolley Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Interesting rant. He makes some very valid points. Thanks for sharing that Adam. Side note: I find any time someone starts a rant that beginds with "With all due respect" ussually is about to say something disrespectful. It is like ending with "bless his heart." (e.g., "With all due respect, what an ugly baby, bless his heart.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07RS4 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Nail = Head I read an article the other day that says that the top 1% pay 95% of all the tax revenue in this country. Also, over 75% of people get more in a tax return than they put into the tax system. Is it a tax revenue system, or another government charity organization? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marylander Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 All very true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z71_Denali Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 maybe the gov't should stop issuing refunds... anyone getting an $8,000 refund definitely filed their W4 wrong and should be penalized for their own mistake. only exception to that should be some of the deserving tax credits like adopting a child, etc. they do it to people who don't withhold enough. when you file, if you owe them more than 10% of what your annual withholding should be, they penalize you! i almost got penalized this year... my own fault for not reading the back of the W4 and filling out the multiple job/income worksheet!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70'sChevyGirl Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 He put it very well IMO I like rants like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golf for Life Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 good video Adam and thanks for posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gencoupe3dot8 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Nail = Head I read an article the other day that says that the top 1% pay 95% of all the tax revenue in this country. Also, over 75% of people get more in a tax return than they put into the tax system. Is it a tax revenue system, or another government charity organization? Given how the super rich are paying ~15% on capital gains I'm not sure how the first part of your statement holds true... the middle class with whatever the minimum salary is for 45% income tax is shouldering some serious tax burden... I would like to see ACTUAL published figures on this... And I sure ain't getting anywhere NEAR what I put in for my tax return... Sorry, but with 1% of the country controlling 95% of the wealth.. I'm not sold on the possibility of the so called American dream any longer... I work my butt off and see at least HALF of my income go to some sort of tax... And I don't expect SS to be solvent when it's my turn to retire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChargerMatt Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 It's sad that my generation feels they have no control over the future. It's really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07RS4 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Let me try and find the article man. I think it was on the Fox News website last week or the week before. I wish I could remember the title, but I'll look for it. Given how the super rich are paying ~15% on capital gains I'm not sure how the first part of your statement holds true... the middle class with whatever the minimum salary is for 45% income tax is shouldering some serious tax burden... I would like to see ACTUAL published figures on this... And I sure ain't getting anywhere NEAR what I put in for my tax return... Sorry, but with 1% of the country controlling 95% of the wealth.. I'm not sold on the possibility of the so called American dream any longer... I work my butt off and see at least HALF of my income go to some sort of tax... And I don't expect SS to be solvent when it's my turn to retire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveVY Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Great points and awesome post! Thanks Adam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Adam's Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Not entirely accurate, but I will admit b/c my wife and I have a combined income that puts us just inside of a higher bracket we get hammered on taxes each year now. At the same time I can't complain too much b/c my taxes in turn help fund the organizations that help my son get services at home, fund the SDC school programs hes enrolled in, and all other kiddo's like him. Taxes are a tricky subject... I'd be willing to be that those in a quarter million + income bracket have the means to reduce their tax burden via accounting or other means, while many in the lower reaches do not. Theres a lot of variables to play with that can make one side seem fair and the other not. Is the system perfect? No and I doubt there is one... no matter how you cut up the cake someone is gonna complain about the portions. Some more 'realistic' information on the subject: Bogus 1% Paying More Bogus Tax Than 95% - Bogus The story can be traced back to the conservative Tax Foundation. The statistics are these. "40.4 percent of the total income taxes collected by the federal government" comes from one percent of Americans. The bottom 95% pays "39.4 percent of the income tax burden." It doesn't take a genius to figure out that 40.4 is bigger than 39.4, so yup. That top little tip of Americans really does pay more than that big old mass at the bottom. Here are the two things the shocking statistics leave out, the two things that make the statistics into bogus statistics, the two bits of data that make the magic into a cheap card trick. First, the Tax Foundation doesn't include all taxes. The figures count only income taxes. That leaves out of lot of taxes. And they count only Federal taxes. So they don't include sales taxes, licenses, payroll taxes, local income taxes, state income taxes, property taxes, fees, tolls, energy taxes, and on and on. Here's why: If you look at all taxes, the richest 1% don't really pay 40% of the tax burden (pdf). It drops down to 23%. But 40% has a lot more drama than 23%. See how statistics can improve if you leave out one or two things? Like every tax except income tax? Oh, excuse me, federal income tax. The 95% the Tax Foundation picks on pays 61.5% of ALL taxes, so the conservative group leaves that out. But still. 1% paying 23% of all taxes, down from 40.4! Isn't that still outrageous? Well, not so fast, conservatives. That same 1% that now pays 23% (down from the bogus 40%) takes in 22.2% of all income, and holds 40% of all wealth in the nation. Soooo.... The 1% continue to pad their 40% of all wealth with 22.2% of all income. And they pay 23% of all taxes. And 99% of all drama is suddenly gone. And lets remember folks... keep it civil and polite or the thread goes away. Edited February 28, 2012 by Dylan@Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Mitchell Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Nail = Head I read an article the other day that says that the top 1% pay 95% of all the tax revenue in this country. Also, over 75% of people get more in a tax return than they put into the tax system. Is it a tax revenue system, or another government charity organization? I haven't done enough research on how much the top 1% pay in tax revenue so I won't comment on that portion of the above post. However the 75% figure of people receiving more in their tax return than they paid in taxes seems high. I prepared tax returns through AARP for two years and the majority of returns were for the elderly and the low income.The best way to lower your tax bill is through deductions, exemptions and credits and credits will have more effect on your return as credits affect your tax return dollar for dollar so each dollar of credit will reduce your tax liability by one dollar. There are two types of credits - refundable and non-refundable. Let's say you had a tax liability of $1,000.00 prior to taking your applicable non-refundable credits. You have $2,000.00 in credits but since they are non-refundable your tax liability will be reduced to zero. Non-refundable tax credits can lower your tax liability to zero and they consist of the following: Child and dependent care credit Education credits Credit for the elderly and disabled Child tax credit Residential energy credits Retirement savings contribution credit Refundable tax credits can lower your tax liability below zero so you can actually receive more in your refund than you paid in income tax deducted from your pay check. They consist of the following: Earned income credit Adoption credit First time homebuyer credit Additional child tax credit Health coverage tax credit American opportunity credit The most common refundable tax credit I found was the earned income credit. You could actually obtain a refund even if you paid no tax. It's based on the number of dependents and the amount of money earned and only a few people qualify for this credit. If you have a minimum wage job and three or four dependents you most likely will quality and will receive a refund for more than you paid in income tax if you paid any federal income tax at all. Many people who found themselves unemployed during the tax year also qualified. I'd say maybe ten percent of the returns I completed for the non-elderly fell into this category. Statistics show that most people who qualify for this type of return only do so for one to two years as they find a better job or return to the workforce.. Another thing to consider are the federal taxes that are paid by all people regardless of their income level such as federal payroll taxes and the federal gas tax which is about .18 per gallon. Some state and local taxes also fall into this equation and everybody is going to pay those taxes regardless of their income status. I would like to see the tax system revised to make it more equitable for all but what's "equitable" for one is not "equitable" for another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
07RS4 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I haven't done enough research on how much the top 1% pay in tax revenue so I won't comment on that portion of the above post. I'm pretty sure I am mixing up some numbers on what I read here, that does seem quite high. Thanks for the insight from someone who actually knows the system. I just remember reading the article and getting p'd-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1FAST SS Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I wish the taxes I paid last year was returned like so many that get the $8,000 refund check. I see the amount I pay in taxes and it makes me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChargerMatt Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I keep seeing this "8,000" refund... who is it for and where do I sign up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Mitchell Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I keep seeing this "8,000" refund... who is it for and where do I sign up? I'll take a guess that the $8,000.00 refund they're talking about is the $8,000.00 credit for first time home buyers that I believe took place in 2008 through 2010 and was extended until April 2011 for some military personnel. The dates may be incorrect. I believe the first home buyer credit was in 2007 for $7,500.00 but you had to pay that one back over a fifteen year period which actually made it a loan so it wasn't that great a deal. I believe the latter credits from 2008 on did not require repayment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z71_Denali Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 i was talking about the HR Block commercial where everyone is praising this one lady for having a $8,600 return. everytime i see it i smurk and think of all the people out there that don't understand that is just a loan your getting back from the gov't at 0% interest. everyone should adjust their W4s annually, if you aren't having to withhold as much, take that extra money each paycheck, put it in a money market or mutual fund account and watch the interest on it grow over one year's time! that $8,600 could be a few hundred more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChargerMatt Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I'll take a guess that the $8,000.00 refund they're talking about is the $8,000.00 credit for first time home buyers that I believe took place in 2008 through 2010 and was extended until April 2011 for some military personnel. The dates may be incorrect. I believe the first home buyer credit was in 2007 for $7,500.00 but you had to pay that one back over a fifteen year period which actually made it a loan so it wasn't that great a deal. I believe the latter credits from 2008 on did not require repayment. Do not qualify. Dammit i was talking about the HR Block commercial where everyone is praising this one lady for having a $8,600 return. everytime i see it i smurk and think of all the people out there that don't understand that is just a loan your getting back from the gov't at 0% interest. everyone should adjust their W4s annually, if you aren't having to withhold as much, take that extra money each paycheck, put it in a money market or mutual fund account and watch the interest on it grow over one year's time! that $8,600 could be a few hundred more Haha it's funny how many people don't understand this. I have had many disputes with coworkers about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Slow Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Go here: CBO | Average Federal Taxes by Income Group Click on share of taxes paid on left hand column. What you see may or may not support your political beliefs, but it will be factual information unskewed by political bias. Remember this, when you get your info on taxes, spending, etc. get it from a website that ends in .gov from the government department that is responsible for the reporting, disbursing or collecting $, but not congress. Those critters will spin their info like a figure skater. Those that end in .com, .org, etc will put their spin on any information contained therein. Of course this means you'll have to read and filter the info, what we used to call thinking. As for tax refunds you want to get back as little as possible OR pay as little as possible every year. If your getting a big refund you are underpaying yourself. Think of it this way: for every thousand dollars in refund you have on average shorted yourself 50 cents per hour. (52 weeks X 40 hours = 2080 hours) 1000 bucks divided by 2080 hours = 0.48. When I've explained this to coworkers they try to argue that I'm wrong, but the math proves them wrong. To get as close to zero on taxes it will take a few minutes with a calculator and a quick visit to your company's HR department or a quick call to your accountant which in my case is the lovely Mrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Adam's Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Yep... a break even or as close as you can get to it is ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK427 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Lets cut all the loop holes,tax ductions ect. and just have a Flat tax! Win Win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Lets cut all the loop holes,tax ductions ect. and just have a Flat tax! Win Win Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryPolska Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Lets cut all the loop holes,tax ductions ect. and just have a Flat tax! Win Win I'd rather see a national sales tax, over a flat tax. That way, the pimps, drug dealers, prostitutes, tattoo artists, etc. start paying into the system also. Plus a national sales tax would promote savings from a large majority of people. Something this country badly needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Adam's Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I say we implement a system where your entire annual income in cash is placed into one of those "cash grab" contest boxes with you. You get 3 minutes to grab as much as you can. Whatever is left goes to taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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