Trying to figure out if these are water spots or something else, and best approach for them!

[mattadams]

Hi Adam's! I'm a long-time customer and lurker, first-time poster. I've actually been using Adam's Polishes way back to 2002 or so when Adam actually sponsored my show truck and was a member of the Ford Truck World Community, so I'm not exactly a newbie, but beyond the basics of washing and waxing, etc. I still have a lot to learn! I'm not too far from the Colorado headquarters and have picked things up here before.

We picked up a new (to us) Mini a few days ago. It had snowed when we were test driving it, so didn't get a really good look at the paint, and when we picked it up it was dark so didn't really look it over that well either... it's a 2017 with only 14,000 miles so figured the paint would be fine. On closer inspection in the garage the next day, noticed the hood has spots all over it, which seem like they COULD be water spots, but are all over. I thought maybe it was just some residue that the dealer had used and since it was cold at the time, maybe it didn't get fully cleaned off... I found the Adam's FAQ on removing water spots, and short of the final polishing step, gave the steps a try... also tried searching around the forums before posting in case this had already been answered... but I'm not even positive these are water spots so not sure if I'm looking at it all wrong. I tried to see if these had an "edge" to them I could feel with my nail etc. and I couldn't feel anything. Tried to get some pics (attached) but it didn't photograph all that well.
- I first tried some basic detail spray on it with a microfiber.

- tried rubbing it with some distilled vinegar in a small spot just in case in case this did more damage. Didn't notice any difference.

- tried using an adam's clay bar I had in my kit but I've never actually clayed before... this didn't seem to help either and could've made it worse as I noticed some swirls that weren't there before after trying this approach. To be fair, this was a pretty old clay bar, and had never been used/was still sealed, but perhaps was beyond its useful life. It wasn't easily manipulated. 

- next step, according to the FAQ, might be to do a polish perhaps with some compound, but this area is new to me and I don't have a polisher and I don't mind investing a little money to make it right, but I'm not a regular detailer to this level either, so not sure if it might be better just ot bring it to a real detailer who knows what they are doing and have the right equipment already.

[RayS]

Hi Matt,

I just corrected a Mini a few weeks that was a might bit worse than this one.  I have all the equipment, which made it easier. However, I did my initial test spot with hand polish.  The Scratch and Swirl Remover along with Hand Polish may do what you are looking for and it won't require the investing in equipment and pads, unless you plan on starting to do more corrections.  The mini that I did sat outside for years and if you look at the picture of the roof, it was spotted like your car, but much worse. I did post the mini and it is here 

 

 

The other option, given you are considering have a detailer do the car and since you are close to the Adam's Colorado location is to make an appointment with the Adam's Shine Stop.  They are experts on the Adam's products and will ensure that you have the right products to maintain the vehicle after it is corrected.   https://www.theshinestop.com/

 

 

[mattadams]

Thanks Ray, that helps a lot! In general I don't mind buying tools when I need them, but I don't see myself doing enough detailing to justify the expense of the polisher, but nice to know there are some hand options. Think I'll head down to the retail shop tomorrow and pick up some of the scratch and swirl remover, polish, and some pads for it, and start from there, and hope it does the trick! 
I looked at taking it in to have it detailed by the shop but not sure teh spots btoher me quite enough for the price of what they charge... though I'm sure they do amazing work. 

[falcaineer]

It's possible they're etched, in which case you may be looking at sanding. By hand may work some, but it won't give the same equal results over the entire surface. Are you on the north end of Denver?

 

 

 

[mattadams]

Hi thanks Chris! I live up in Longmont but it's not too far to drive down to westminster to visit the shop. 
Is there a way to tell if they are etched? I thought that might be if you could physically feel a difference or roughness at the edge, indicating it may have eaten away at the clearcoat... but if I feel it with my fingers or with my finger nails I don't notice a difference in smoothness or any borders to the spots. 

[Rich]

57 minutes ago, mattadams said:

Hi thanks Chris! I live up in Longmont but it's not too far to drive down to westminster to visit the shop. 
Is there a way to tell if they are etched? I thought that might be if you could physically feel a difference or roughness at the edge, indicating it may have eaten away at the clearcoat... but if I feel it with my fingers or with my finger nails I don't notice a difference in smoothness or any borders to the spots. 

Give Ray's method with the hand polish a try in a small area. That should help you tell if they're etched or not and require more work. 

[falcaineer]

1 hour ago, mattadams said:

Hi thanks Chris! I live up in Longmont but it's not too far to drive down to westminster to visit the shop. 
Is there a way to tell if they are etched? I thought that might be if you could physically feel a difference or roughness at the edge, indicating it may have eaten away at the clearcoat... but if I feel it with my fingers or with my finger nails I don't notice a difference in smoothness or any borders to the spots. 

 

Agreed with the approach above go try by hand, see where that gets you.

 

If I was closer I'd give you a hand. Hopefully someone is at the shop tomorrow that can take a look (I'm up there on occasion, but not tomorrow). Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[mattadams]

Thanks Chris, your assistance is appreciated! I wasn't sure if I could just ask if someone might be able to take a look at it and offer some tips when I got there, I've never had to before because I always knew what I was looking for. Going back and forth on whether I should just buy a polisher or not if I might end up needing it anyway. I saw Adam's was perhaps exploring a tool rental program, but not sure if they ever figured that out? 

[mattadams]

I went down to the warehouse today and before I went in, realized something interesting - in the sun, I could barely see the spots at all... I had to look from just the right angle, or the hood looked perfectly normal. So decided I'd feel bad asking anyone for actual detailing support on something hard to show them, LOL. I picked up some of the scratch and swirl remover and the hand polish and the applicators and I'll give it a whirl in a small area and let you know how it goes.

 

[mattadams]

I ended up giving it a go with the scratch & swirl remover followed by the hand polish. I'd say there was a definite difference in the before and after... I can still see the spots from the right angles under the garage lights, but they aren't nearly as visible as before. The vinyl stripes are a bit better, but not as dramatic a difference as the paint itself.

I did notice that when I was doing the S&S remover the pad was getting rather dark, and I couldn't tell if it was just contaminates from the surface (I did do a detail spray and basic clay mitting though I was a bit nervous with the clay mitt so maybe didn't do it as thoroughly as needed) or if I was getting paint transfer, so I didn't get too aggressive with it. 

I haven't waxed yet... I'm debating if I should try a second round of s&s/polish or if I should go all out and try the compound/polish with a buffer, or just leave it as is and know it's pretty good and I'm probably the only one that will notice. I'm guessing that it might be better if I go with a polisher and do the compound/polish steps, but not sure if it's worth the expense. 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by mattadams

[RayS]

Glad to know the products are working for you.  The pads will collect the contaminates being removed and should be cleaned with a brush on a regular basis.  When I am using the Swirl Killer, I clean the pad after each panel, sometimes more often if the vehicle is heavily oxidized.  I also have multiple pads so I change to a clean one when they become to too dirty or saturated.  It is not usual to go through 4 pads per vehicle and then I wash them all once I'm done wit the vehicle.    The pads for Swirl Killer will last several years if taken care of, even with moderate use.  

[mattadams]

Thanks Ray. Appreciate the help. Got nervous the S&S remover might've been doing more damage than it was benefitting because the color was pretty dark and couldn't tell if it was dark contaminate or the pretty dark gray paint... Think I should give it another go for another round of S&S/Polish? Would love to have the water spots gone entirely just so I can fully cross if off my list though it is much better. 

[falcaineer]

3 hours ago, mattadams said:

Thanks Ray. Appreciate the help. Got nervous the S&S remover might've been doing more damage than it was benefitting because the color was pretty dark and couldn't tell if it was dark contaminate or the pretty dark gray paint... Think I should give it another go for another round of S&S/Polish? Would love to have the water spots gone entirely just so I can fully cross if off my list though it is much better. 

 

How dirty your pads get will vary greatly, especially if you didn't clay thoroughly or it's been a while since the last time you did. Your call on going another round by hand, but the machine will give you faster and more consistent results.

[RayS]

Chris is correct on the point that how dirty they get and how quickly will vary greatly.   My recommendation is that if you are going to try going over it again, pick a small test area, I usually go with the lower area of the rear quarter panels and see if another road makes a difference.  If you take a close up picture before you start and then take another from the same distance and light, you'll know if your work effective or not.

[mattadams]

I had been pretty busy so how I hadn't been able to get back to this, but I did finally yesterday... did another dose of the scratch and swirl remover and hand polish... still not 100% perfect, but got it to where I could barely see any water spot and had to really look from the right angles, even under the bright lights, to see the spots. Vinyl stripes still aren't great and a little more clearly spotted, but significantly improved from the beginning. Think it's good neough I'll call ti good, and put on a coat of wax yesterday evening as well. 
Thanks for all your help! Still kinda pondering getting a buffer... I got to detailing the rest of hte car and no water spots but a few swirl marks here and there and such... but, it's also a Mini and not a ferrari or anything  

[RayS]

If you plan on doing detailing on a regular basis it is well worth getting a Swirl Killer.  It will last you many years and your family will love what you can do with vehicles.  Then if you get ambitious you can make a few dollars on the side by detailing vehicles.  Just practice before you start having people pay, paint jobs are rather expensive.

[mattadams]

Just a little update on this and detailing in general. I've been pretty active on the Adam's Community page on facebook but not quite so active here (I'm always on facebook anyway LOL). I did end up buying a swirl killer mini, and then I also picked up a swirl killer 15mm at the tent sale. I've been working on my experience with these and did my first full blown graphene ceramic project a few weeks ago (a massive silver f-350 that luckily the owner was quite forgiving of the time it took me as well as some of the flaws... he mainly uses it as a hunting truck). I'm planning on doing the graphene ceramic coating on the mini next, and so I'll be doing a full polish anyway. I got it a LOT better with some of the recommendations posted here (scratch and swirl remover, hand polish) but there's still a bit there... and also a number of scratches in the hood that I think I'll be able to get out with polishing. Also have noticed water spots on the flatter part of the trunk which I plan on dealing with before I coat it as well. It's been a fun experience, I'm getting better!