shane@detailedreflections

Thanks @mc2hill!!!  It’s always reassuring seeing some of my writings being referenced. 

@alwielgosz, don’t be afraid to ask questions. Your current questions are a bit broad and some searching will yield you a good number of answers. Once you get through that reading, I’m happy to provide thoughts on questions or go into more depth!

You ask a loaded question. Choosing a last step product depends on you...what do you want to do and what are your goals?

Ceramic coatings are less maintenance but not maintenance free. It will be easier to clean the bike which means more time riding it. 

You say the paint is “perfect” and doesn’t need polishing. Here is where I would disagree. Even brand new paint benefits from polishing. It’s not so much to repair damage, but to level the clear coat for the best gloss. Our new vehicle prep includes polishing, just not as much as a vehicle that’s been used and damaged. 

If you’re going to go through the trouble of a coating done properly, don’t skip the steps. I will tell you that despite being smaller, it’s just as challenging to do a motorcycle as a car. That’s speaking from experience. And it’s easier to do if you pull the body work off the bike. 

To maintain a coating is variable on the coating you use. For Adams, you can top with ceramic boost, ceramic spray coating (not my choice) or ceramic wax. Or simply keep it clean with waterless wash. The choice is yours!  It will still need an occasional claybar. 

Best of luck!

You could, but there's no benefit.

Let's clear something up about gloss and finishes.  Waxes (and even ceramic coatings) have a small effect on the glossiness of a vehicle.  Think of your last step as a protection piece of the puzzle.

Your gloss largely comes from the prep you put in.  Great polishing will result in great gloss.  Make the surface clean and free of defects.  Then protect the finish you created with a choice of last step protection products.  At that point it's your choice of waxes, sealants or ceramics.

Personally I don't see the need for the spray wax and a ceramic based product.  Different technologies that don't need to be together for any effect in this case.

2 hours ago, Packy said:

You wasted a lot of work.  Ceramic coatings can easily be stripped by chemical methods.  Some drive through car washes can even do it.  

Look for heavy duty pre painting wash cleaners.  

I’ll preface this post with this...we are a business and we are an accredited installer for various coatings we install. That being said, we’ve been trained by the manufacturer in application and removal of their products.

If we installed a ceramic coating and a drive through car wash removed the coating I would fully anticipate my client coming back to me and having some words that would likely end up in my refunding their money. Fortunately we don’t install products that we haven’t tested for durability so we have a feel of what to expect for our clients.

Now regardless of a chemical removing the coating, there’s still polishing to be done. Polishing through the coating and into the paint is part of the prep steps for reinstallation of another last step product (coating or otherwise).

A chemical strong enough to remove a coating (which tends to be more resistant than paint thus it’s benefit) is probably pretty harsh on the finish of a vehicle. If that finish gets further damaged we’ve increased our workload.

Nothing is incapable of being removed, but there are “best practices” in removal, and no manufacturer I’ve encountered recommends a chemical removal for a ceramic coating. 

It definitely looks like the application of too much product. It’s either that or a ton of really bad high spots which you would have noticed before now given how bad they are. 

I would use a fresh microfiber and maybe some APC and see if that helps to lift it or level it out. 

If that doesn’t work, strip wash it and see how it looks. 

Thanks @falcaineer  We haven’t worked with IGL coatings directly, so I can’t speak directly as to compatibility. 

Ceramic Boost can become very streaky if it’s overapplied. You have a few options in my opinion. 

One is to do a strip wash like was suggested. A few ounces of APC in a wash bucket with soap will help to remove it. 

Give your vehicle a decent clay bar treatment might help pull any other contaminants off as well. 

Some photos of the afflicted areas is a good idea that may give us some more insight as well. If you could post some, we might have further input. 

Most wheels are clear coated and polish just like paint. 

As far as how many steps of polish you need, it depends on the existing damage and the finish you desire. If they’re black, I wouldn’t skip the finishing step but that’s just us and the way we do things.

So the work flow for wheels...

- Wheel cleaner

- Tire & Rubber Cleaner

- Clay (maybe?  It’s a challenge to clay most surfaces of wheels).

- Polish (as many steps as you need/want).

- Coating Prep. 

- Coat (spray or hand apply)

- Buff.

19 minutes ago, TheMorningRise said:

 

 

If you do not mind my asking........

 

You say you all have other jobs.  Is that due to the detailing business not being enough to sustain you or because you choose to?

 

I had my career long before my business. Since I enjoy my career, I’m not looking to leave it. It also affords me the ability to run my business as I see fit since I don’t “depend” on it for my sole income. I don’t have to get into pricing wars if I don’t want to. I own the business and have two guys who work for me. One regularly, one when we need it.

Since I have my benefits through my career, it’s a cost savings for my business as well. 

If I were doing it full time, there’s some things I would do differently. But I’d be hedging my bets in hopes of a significant payoff in personal income. 

We are an appointment only business model since myself and the guys who work for me have full time jobs. Last winter, we were sitting around cracking beers and cleaning shop with doing a fair amount of interiors. 

This year, we haven’t slowed down at all. It’s been a steady flow of work. Surprisingly we have done a bunch of ceramic coatings this winter. We’ve also been doing some PPF work. And in the midst of all that, we crush it with the interiors. 

A big part of winter sustainability is if you have clients or customers. Clients have a consistent relationship and return often versus a customer who comes in once. We have clients who come in like clockwork. Have enough of those and build those relationships and you’ll have work. 

Stay prepared for the slow times though. They will come, even in the “good” months. Spring and fall are our busiest times.

Thanks @Firebuff17  hopefully we see you at the clinic in May!

And for the question, the ceramic spray is an easier installation than a full coating in terms of spray on/wipe off. The results will be varied by the prep as always. The glossiness of a coating isn’t necessarily the coating as much as the polishing and prep leading up to it. I could show you cars with no protection that are polished really well that you might think were coated (until you put water on them). The coatings just enhance that look. 

This is just my opinion, so take it for what it’s worth. The ceramic spray would be a great alternative to the ceramic boost or ceramic wax that’s easy to apply and durable. It’s not a replacement for a full coating. If you’re going to do all the prep work anyway, why not get the durability of a full coating and top it with the spray coating as a “sacrificial” layer that will all you maximum protection of the look you worked to achieve?

Your mileage may vary. 

@Raige93 you can RSVP up to the event itself. I wouldn’t ever close it off to anyone. We like to get a feel for how many people so we can plan food and also so our vendors can help with support. 

Awesome idea. And happy to see something for forum members.

Please don’t include me in the drawing though!  Just wanted to recognize what you were doing @Dan@Adams

1 hour ago, Slickit said:

 

Edit:  P.S.

Thoughts on using 0000 steel wool to remove waterspots on glass?

Go for it. You won’t hurt anything at all. It leaves a great finish on the glass. 

And I agree with you that if you’ve already fixed it, it’s not worth going back. 

We would take care of it anyway, but I can see why some businesses wouldn’t. First, it’s not really an install issue. Second, you already fixed it “some how.” By that I mean they don’t know what you did/didn’t do to it. We strive for great customer satisfaction; sometimes too much so. But not all businesses work like that.

I still think it’s a water/product issue as opposed to an installation issue. 

I admire your hustle at such a young age!  It’s something to be commended. 

Being so young offers you a ton of advantages. The biggest is time to gain experience. The second is you don’t need to make big money to “pay the bills” yet in life. 

A few things to consider. First, don’t call it a detailing business...yet. You’re looking at more of a car wash/cleaning service. Detailing implies a whole level you’re not ready to provide yet. You will get there. I’m confident of that. 

Being in an upper middle class area, you should have some folks willing to give you business just out of respect for your hustle. Do well by them and work will flow in from their circles. 

To grow your business, cover expenses for product, your time and to leave some money in the business for expansion (tools, etc down the line). 

It will take time, but you will grow. I’ll make you this offer...PM me any time you want with with questions. I’m happy to help you out. I’ve done it for others here on this forum.

I would love to find a local kid with your drive. I would open the doors and help you learn more before sending you on your way with your business. There’s enough work to go around for everyone. 

I’ve updated the title to official thread for the clinic.

If you’re attending, please RSVP as it helps our supporters plan so that they can help!  

April 27th from 9-???

Lunch provided. 

The clinic is in Colchester, CT. 

And submit your photos!

Man, what a gorgeous car. Your paint is most likely single stage paint which isn’t the end of the world. Single stage paint can still be polished, just like multiple stage paint systems. It does change a few things though. 

We typically use a fine polish. You’ll also change pads often. You’re going to load the pads with paint quicker than a clear coat. So you’ll need a lot of pads. You’ll also note your pads changing color. 

As always, do a test spot somewhere hidden and see how it reacts before going at the whole vehicle. 

Again, gorgeous car!

Caring for white is really no different from any other paint. The prep is what brings about the gloss. Really the only color that needs special care (and even then it’s not special, just can’t cut corners) is black since it shows everything. 

Polish it down. Protect it up. 

A clay bar will help to take everything off. 

Do you ask so you know if you need to reapply?  Or are you trying to remove wax?

If you share your objective, we might be able to help you out more with what you need or how to do it. 

I’m not sure I entirely understand the question being asked, but I’ll give it a go. 

Your last step product on a car that doesn’t see weather or isn’t driven often is entirely a stylistic choice. You can achieve a fantastic, protected finish with traditional products. Maintenance is minimal if it’s not used often. Ceramics are less maintenance if you want to go that route. It’s preference. Some people like to wax their cars. 

If you’re happy with what you’ve been using, what’s your reason for change?  The best gloss comes from great prep as opposed to products used in last steps. 

3 hours ago, NuNu said:

I know I have tried to become a stocking dealer. I own a independent auto parts store in N.C. (yes there is still a few in America) thought my chances would have been good since I’m a “little guy” but Adam’s said it was a No Go they weren’t looking dealers at this time. I order my stuff online but being around a Military Base these guys around here “want it now” and ride a hour and a half to a new Chemical Guys showroom they opened in Raleigh. I went once or twice myself and tried some stuff but ........nah I’m good, I’ll just order my products online from Adam’s I guess

I’m a bit surprised they said they weren’t looking, especially with all of the changes to their wholesale program. It’s not like there’s massive numbers of dealers around everywhere. 

Their wholesale program definitely lends itself to retail as opposed to detailers using their products with the requirements and all in order to get a reasonable margin. We looked at it to see if it made sense for us, and it simply didn’t so we didn’t pursue it further. 

Now with the affiliate program having seemingly gone away without warning or notice, there seems to be larger behind the scenes changes.

I’m going to go against the grain and say it’s not an installation issue. My thought process is that if it were an installation issue the glass wouldn’t have the same spots on it. Adams doesn’t coat glass (unless you use ceramic spray coating), but the glass exhibits the same type of deposit or etching on it. The same effect on different surfaces leads time to believe it’s some kind of deposit.

Is the filtration system in need of maintenance?  

Also a filtration system isn’t necessarily a deionizer. The deionizer is what leaves spot free finishes since spots are either deposits or ionic in nature typically. 

Your detailer might be willing to knock the spots down and reapply the coating, but I don’t believe this to be an installation issue. 

It’s a bit of a ride, but @Sizzle Chest (Scott) at Auto Dermatology is an awesome detailer that would be worth the trip to go to for services if he fits your needs/budget.

Http://www.autodermatology.com

The SK kits are really good for the weekend warrior. You can’t go wrong with one of those and they’re more balanced than a PC machine. 

Some good words from @falcaineer and @Rich. The only things I’ll add is that great gloss is achieved through great prep (polishing, decon, etc). Great protection is through using great products!

A couple of things. Your post would be much easier to read with some paragraphs. Reading a wall of text like that makes it possible to miss some points. 

A “one step polish” is literally just that. It’s a polish only and typically a diminishing abrasive that goes from a medium aggregate to a fine aggregate. This will remove imperfections. It will not finish down like a true finishing polish or cut like a compound. This is for your clients who want improvement, not perfection. 

An “all in one” is essentially a polish and protection in one. Usually less powerful in cut than even the one step polishes. All in one products are full of compromises because it’s doing multiple jobs. It will never function as well as separate dedicated products. Protection isn’t long lived. We use an all in one as an economy one step polish. We upcharge for different steps and better protection. 

If you’re going into polishing for money, there’s a few points I feel need mentioning. First is to get yourself a paint thickness gauge of some kind. It’s invaluable in knowing what you’re working with and how aggressive you can (or more importantly can’t) be. Once you take money from someone for a service, you’re a professional. An “oops” has to be fixed. An oops in polishing can mean repainting at your expense. Know what you’re working with to work confidently.

The next point is to not underestimate the cost of the proper tools. We have more polishers than most and you don’t need to go to that extreme, but you will need more than one polisher to do most jobs without cutting corners. 

Also from a business standpoint don’t underestimate the expense and number of pads you will need and will burn through. You can’t stop working on a clients car because you smoke a pad. You need a bunch of them. We have six or seven different pads (different cuts, wool/foam, etc) and we keep a bunch of each. This expense needs to be figured into your pricing and you need to sit on stock. 

Polishes can be kept as simple as compound, correcting and finishing. The line we use gives us seven or eight options  so we can typically find just the right amount of cut. 

Practice polishing a bunch before you take money and invest in the proper equipment to do it as a business.