Adam, is it worth it?

[jordan572]

I have a new camaro that is 2 years old, it is starting to show swirls. The only thing I do to protect the paint is clay and wax it. My question is if I buy the pc and all the other stuff will I see a noticeable change in the shine of my car? It is so new that I am worried that it already looks to good to benefit from the adams products all though the swirls do show quite a bit in the sun. I plan on buying about 700 dollars worth of stuff so when I start I have it all. Can this shine any better?

[Junkman2008]

I don't think Dave is trying to say that polishing doesn't make the paint shinier. I think he'd agree that a polished finish with no wax will be shinier than an unpolished surface with wax. However, that unpolished finish with wax will appear shinier than the same unpolished finish without wax. I know you're trying to instill in people that the key to a great shine isn't just to slap some wax on the paint, but in cases where you don't have time to polish, waxing can create an improvement, even if it's a minor one.

 

I can agree with that.

 

Also, I'm not sure polishing boots is a good analogy. Maybe boots are different than shoes, but all the time I spent polishing my shoes at the academy, I used Kiwi Shoe Polish, and right on the can it says "KIWI shoe polish contains a time-honored blend of quality waxes that protect and nourish leather and produce a long lasting glossy shine." Shoe polish is more of a wax than a true polish in my opinion. It just has to be "polished" into the leather instead of a simple wax on, wax off process.

 

What that can of Kiwi says is very similar to polishing wax. There are a ton of polishing waxes available over the counter. They attempt to do both, shine and protect, but do not do either as well as a dedicated product. My understanding of what Adam offers are dedicated products. Now I'm not privy to exactly what is in every bottle so I can't say 1000 percent but the understanding I have is that the products are dedicated to what they do. If that is the case, wax is a protectant and polish is a cleaning/cutting abrasive.

 

If you don't want to use leather, then use jewelry, aluminum or glass. All 3 are polished with some type of abrasive compound and neither are waxed. Polish equals shine. I have always experienced that, will always preach that and that is what my eyes show me.

[Chobbs]

It is absolutely possible to get a swirl free wash using the two bucket method alone. The foam gun is "nice to have" but not necessary. Again, it is nice to keep on topic so that when searching for info, it will be easily found. This has all been discussed before.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jordan572]

It is absolutely possible to get a swirl free wash using the two bucket method alone. The foam gun is "nice to have" but not necessary. Again, it is nice to keep on topic so that when searching for info, it will be easily found. This has all been discussed before.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Ok thanks

[jordan572]

If you want an Adam's Made in USA foam gun, I was able to snag one from Eric at Thompson's Racing. He's a forum member and an authorized Adam's reseller. If I'm not mistaken, he's probably posted in this thread. When I ordered one on 12/24, he had four left.

 

Is the adams gun superior to the other guns? I just want to buy it all at once and that won't be until spring, unless the adams gun is really good i would rather wait? Thanks again everyone for all the help!

[07RS4]

I have one left, in a kit on our site! I had bought a Gilmour II a couple years ago. Think it was before they switched to made in China and I have an Adam's Foam Gun. The Adam's Foam Gun is far superior to the Gilmour in foam output and distance. It works, but if I had the choice, I'd buy the Adam's Gun. Plus Gilmour is Made In China now!

 

PM sent!

[Junkman2008]

Thanks, yea I'm pretty sure I would fail the flash test. Do the swirls that only show up when using a flash affect the shine in the sun?

 

Allow me to answer this question because it was totally misunderstood by those who have addressed it thus far.

 

First, the answer is YES. Now allow me to explain WHY swirls will affect the way you car looks in the sun.

 

When a car has the ultimate shine on it due to the paint being perfect, light is reflected in a solid beam. When a car is full of swirls, the light is reflected in a thousand directions. As you can guess, a solid beam of light being reflected looks a lot more intense than light being reflected in multiple directions. Let me show you some examples.

 

Here is the rear end of a Corvette that I was repairing a scratch on. It has NOT been polished. I picked red for a reason. Notice how dull the shine is. Notice how blurry my reflection is.

 

 

 

Now just so that you can see how bad the swirls are, here's a shot with the light:

 

 

 

Now here's a shot of that same area after I have fixed it. The scratch was through the clear coat so it wasn't coming all the way out but it is a lot less noticeable. We aren't worried about the scratch, I want you to see how the paint is now reflecting WITHOUT a drop of sunlight.

 

 

 

Notice how solid the reflection is now and how rich the color looks. That's what polishing does to your paint. Not a drop of wax is on that part of the car and it looks like glass. Here it is with some light.

 

 

 

The paint is now so clear, you can see the pattern on my sweater. It actually looks like scratches. Here's another shade of red using the flash again. What I want you to realize is that I took a picture of the exact same spot in this trunk. Notice how the reflected light is this huge, unorganized blast of light. Because of all the swirls, the light is being reflected in a thousand directions. It is also being reflected off of every swirl and surrounding swirl in that area.

 

 

 

Once corrected, that blob of light becomes a needle point, intense beam of light that sparkles:

 

 

 

The sun will reflect itself the same exact way off your paint. Photographers have to buy special lenses to recreate that type of concentrated light. You can have it naturally. No smoke and mirrors, or fancy lenses.

 

 

 

 

 

Even on an overcast day:

 

 

 

 

 

So when the sun does come out, you could shave in that shine. This is the deck lid of my car, reflecting my house and my halogen light:

 

 

 

One last time, in the sun with red. Not corrected:

 

 

 

 

After correction:

 

 

 

So now the question is, what kind of sunbeam love do YOU want?

[mc2hill]

That's your choice. It's not required like, say the Grit Guard, but it can help reduce marring during the wash, especially on black or other dark colors.

[Junkman2008]

Did not know that, I stand corrected.

 

 

 

Since there are fillers in the sealant then that would explain what I called shine: swirls were diminished by being filled letting the light reflect in more of a single pattern than diffused in many directions. Perhaps shine is the wrong word to describ the difference between the before and after, but there was a noticable difference: it looked better. Call it what you will; shine, gloss or an optical illusion. It simply looked better than just after the clay process.

 

And I am 100% in agreement with you there. I know it looked better.

[Junkman2008]

Once the polishing is finished do you recommend wax or sealant? If you recommend wax and sealant which one should be applied first?

 

The choice between a wax or sealant for me depends on how much time I have to apply either. The sealant that I use is Adam's MSS so I have to allow at least 24 hours to apply each coat (provided that I am doing more than one coat), and have it cure. The wax that I use is Adam's APW. It goes on fast and comes off fast. MSS last longer than any other type of protection that Adam's offers so that is what I like to use (sealants last longer than any type of wax).

 

Thus if time is no issue, I'm going to use a sealant TOPPED with a carnuba paste wax. That is my normal regiment. If time is an issue, I'm going to use APW because it goes on fast, comes off fast and last for quite awhile. None of my choices have anything to do with what the paint looks like after I apply the protection because my eyes cannot see a difference from one wax to another. The shiniest my paint looks to me is after I'm done polishing it. The same is true with my combat boots, any jewelry that I have and the buttons on my uniform. I don't wax those things, I polish them and they shine like hell.

 

So the sealant goes on FIRST because it must bond to the surface of the car. Nothing ever goes on before it. Anything else will go on after the sealant. There is another reason that I layer a sealant with a wax on top of it and that because I'm too lazy to do 2 coats of sealant. Too much wait time. That's why I put APW on top of my MSS. By doing so, I somewhat double up the protection and it doesn't take two days to do that. I must say, my sealant and wax regiment does a hell of a job protecting my paint. I did a thread about it here. Take a look.

[jordan572]

Waxes and sealants do not make stuff shine. If you want something to shine, you have to polish it. If you want to protect the shine that you get from polishing, you use a wax or sealant. Waxes and sealants are protectants, not shining agents (which is what a polish is).

 

Do you think that guys who have polished aluminum wheels just wipe on a little wax and cause the wheels to suddenly shine? NO. They take the wheels off the car and then spend HOURS polishing those wheels. That's what causes them to shine like new. NOT WAX.

 

O yea thats right you have told me this many times!!

[Junkman2008]

The paint look better after MSS because MSS has filling properties in it that help cover up small imperfections in the paint.

 

The only way to tell if any wax makes your paint shine is to use some type of shine-o-meter. I've never seen one but I do know what my eyes see. Now I don't have 20-20 vision anymore and I will agree that different waxes can positively affect the shine of your paint in different ways but to make the paint SHINIER?

 

Not happening. That's not what wax does. That's what polishing does. If wax did that, why the heck did I spend 6 years polishing my freakin' boots! Waxing them would have been a whole lot easier!

[chrys7]

Factory Brems, car is pretty much stock only thing i added was a new sub, strut braces front and back and catch can.

 

Ok, so it's not on-topic, but I've gotta know from a fellow 392'er. . . whatcha' got stoppin' that beast?

[chrys7]

I think a few resellers here on forums still have the all american made foam gun by Adams. I personally have the Gilmour FM1, Good Gun does what I need it to do .

 

ok, so now that I feel the need for a foam gun what one should I buy?

[Junkman2008]

I have a bucket that is just dedicated for tires and wheels. I'm sure that's unnecessary, but to me it made sense. YMMV.

 

It makes sense to me. I wouldn't wash my wheels with the same bucket of soap that I am using on my paint unless I was done with my paint. Brembo's are excellent pads, they just create dust like bees to honey. If you are not regularly tracking or road coursing your car, the trade off of dust damage to performance is not remotely worth it. Brake dust eats through anything it is allowed to sit on for extended periods of time. If you are not washing your car at least once a week, that brake dust will eventually take it's toll.

[psycho_puppies]

Waxes and sealants do not make stuff shine. If you want something to shine, you have to polish it. If you want to protect the shine that you get from polishing, you use a wax or sealant. Waxes and sealants are protectants, not shining agents (which is what a polish is).

 

Do you think that guys who have polished aluminum wheels just wipe on a little wax and cause the wheels to suddenly shine? NO. They take the wheels off the car and then spend HOURS polishing those wheels. That's what causes them to shine like new. NOT WAX.

 

 

Once the polishing is finished do you recommend wax or sealant? If you recommend wax and sealant which one should be applied first?

[BRZN]

So no glossing agents in Adam's waxes and sealants then?

 

These are straight from the web site:

 

Adam's Americana Premium Carnauba Paste Car Wax

Adds Unbelievable Depth in Gloss and Paint Clarity

 

Adam's Buttery Car Wax

High Gloss Carnauba Wax Shine

 

Adam's Machine Super Sealant

Easy Application Offers More Shine and Protection

 

Adam's Quick Sealant Paint Protection Spray

Excellent shine and long lasting durability for months of protection

 

 

I'm a bit confused then. An example: I washed and clayed a six year old Totota Sienna mini van two weeks ago (never been clayed and it showed 65,000 miles). The vehicle had more shine after the clay process, and that was obviously due to the contaminants being removed from the surface allowing more light to reflect. The owner didn't want it polished out just simply protected for the NE winter months. I applied one coat of Adam's MSS with a Porter Cable and the gloss that was brought out in this paint was unmistakable. As far as I'm aware there are no abrasives or solvents in MSS to farthur clean the paint of contaminents I missed with the clay but there was more shine I have to attribute to glossing agents in the sealant.

[LDM]

I don't think Dave is trying to say that polishing doesn't make the paint shinier. I think he'd agree that a polished finish with no wax will be shinier than an unpolished surface with wax. However, that unpolished finish with wax will appear shinier than the same unpolished finish without wax. I know you're trying to instill in people that the key to a great shine isn't just to slap some wax on the paint, but in cases where you don't have time to polish, waxing can create an improvement, even if it's a minor one.

 

Also, I'm not sure polishing boots is a good analogy. Maybe boots are different than shoes, but all the time I spent polishing my shoes at the academy, I used Kiwi Shoe Polish, and right on the can it says "KIWI shoe polish contains a time-honored blend of quality waxes that protect and nourish leather and produce a long lasting glossy shine." Shoe polish is more of a wax than a true polish in my opinion. It just has to be "polished" into the leather instead of a simple wax on, wax off process.

[LDM]

What that can of Kiwi says is very similar to polishing wax. There are a ton of polishing waxes available over the counter. They attempt to do both, shine and protect, but do not do either as well as a dedicated product. My understanding of what Adam offers are dedicated products. Now I'm not privy to exactly what is in every bottle so I can't say 1000 percent but the understanding I have is that the products are dedicated to what they do. If that is the case, wax is a protectant and polish is a cleaning/cutting abrasive.

 

If you don't want to use leather, then use jewelry, aluminum or glass. All 3 are polished with some type of abrasive compound and neither are waxed. Polish equals shine. I have always experienced that, will always preach that and that is what my eyes show me.

 

I agree with you, and think that polishing metal is a much better analogy to polishing paint. Leather is unique in that it's a porous material that you're basically building up the waxes to fill in the holes so that you can have a smooth surface that shines. The only way to get it looking good is to put some time into it. Some kids would use the "Quick Shine" products, and they may have been glossier, but they looked like crap. That would almost be analogous to waxing unpolished paint.

[Junkman2008]

I agree with you, and think that polishing metal is a much better analogy to polishing paint. Leather is unique in that it's a porous material that you're basically building up the waxes to fill in the holes so that you can have a smooth surface that shines. The only way to get it looking good is to put some time into it. Some kids would use the "Quick Shine" products, and they may have been glossier, but they looked like crap. That would almost be analogous to waxing unpolished paint.

 

I think we are on the same page.

[BRZN]

The paint look better after MSS because MSS has filling properties in it that help cover up small imperfections in the paint.

 

 

Did not know that, I stand corrected.

 

 

 

Since there are fillers in the sealant then that would explain what I called shine: swirls were diminished by being filled letting the light reflect in more of a single pattern than diffused in many directions. Perhaps shine is the wrong word to describ the difference between the before and after, but there was a noticable difference: it looked better. Call it what you will; shine, gloss or an optical illusion. It simply looked better than just after the clay process.

 

Different materials require different processes, in my mind, as well as different products to achive similar desired results. Raw aluminum, jewelery, glass, shoes, buttons or army boots: apples to oranges comparing to paint and clear coat.

[jordan572]

So do I need a foam gun?

[Junkman2008]

That's your choice. It's not required like, say the Grit Guard, but it can help reduce marring during the wash, especially on black or other dark colors.

 

It is absolutely possible to get a swirl free wash using the two bucket method alone. The foam gun is "nice to have" but not necessary. Again, it is nice to keep on topic so that when searching for info, it will be easily found. This has all been discussed before.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I disagree with both of you. With my 2-bucket wash, the foam gun is just as important as any other piece of the 2-bucket wash. If you truly understand what the foam gun does, how can you not see the importance of using one?

[jordan572]

There stock 20's that we're black chromed.

[eric@thompsonracing.us]

I have one left, in a kit on our site! I had bought a Gilmour II a couple years ago. Think it was before they switched to made in China and I have an Adam's Foam Gun. The Adam's Foam Gun is far superior to the Gilmour in foam output and distance. It works, but if I had the choice, I'd buy the Adam's Gun. Plus Gilmour is Made In China now!

[jordan572]

ok, so now that I feel the need for a foam gun what one should I buy?