Novice3Clnr Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Hey, does Adman's have Material Safety Data Sheets for its products? Are they accessible on line? If not how does one go about obtaining them? txab and Kingsford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 By law we provide them upon request. Typically, trucking and shipping companies request them. What's on your mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice3Clnr Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hi Adam, What is is on my mid is that I like to know what chemicals I am being exposed to when using "professional products" rather than consumer products. Can you tell me how to obtain the MSDS sheets? Prior attempts have not been successful. -Don BTW - Wouldn't any shop with employees need to have MSDS sheets on file in order to statisfy "Worker Right To Know" regulations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Performance Auto Detailing Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hi Adam, What is is on my mid is that I like to know what chemicals I am being exposed to when using "professional products" rather than consumer products. Can you tell me how to obtain the MSDS sheets? Prior attempts have not been successful. -Don BTW - Wouldn't any shop with employees need to have MSDS sheets on file in order to statisfy "Worker Right To Know" regulations? Wouldn't exactly call Adam's products "professional" products, they are geared more towards consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HFX Detailing Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Wouldn't exactly call Adam's products "professional" products, they are geared more towards consumers. Professional products geared towards consumers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rains Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Hi Adam, What is is on my mid is that I like to know what chemicals I am being exposed to when using "professional products" rather than consumer products. Can you tell me how to obtain the MSDS sheets? Prior attempts have not been successful. -Don BTW - Wouldn't any shop with employees need to have MSDS sheets on file in order to statisfy "Worker Right To Know" regulations? Seems like your pretty worried. If it concens you that much, look into buying a SCBA or a respirator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Performance Auto Detailing Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Professional products geared towards consumers Haha I still wouldn't even say that. These are all for the most part ready to use products. Not professional concentrates. At these prices they are not intended for a high volume professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HFX Detailing Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Seems like your pretty worried. If it concens you that much, look into buying a SCBA or a respirator Even then, you should have the MSDS....if im not mistaken its a legal requirement for some places/businesses in the area I live to have them for any and all chemicals in the open. I've had one customer complain about the "smell" of the products. If I had the MSDS it would be easier to calm their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sizzle Chest Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I'm sure they will provide them to you upon request with your order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledger64 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Wouldn't exactly call Adam's products "professional" products, they are geared more towards consumers. out of curiosity what would you consider professional products? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 We have about .004% of our customers using our goods in a professional setting. Hard to justify the premium price unless the Detailer is not charging a premium, and cheap products can be bought locally without planning or shipping. MSDS sheets are extremely tough to read by anyone other than a chemist. Worse than a legalese contract! MSDS sheets are typically requested by the following groups: 1- Insurance companies of car collectors where large quantities of our goods are stored. 2- Our insurance companies 3- People wanting to knock-off our products 4- organizations wanting to knock-off our products 5- Shipping companies wanting to be sure the chemicals don't light up easily, and burn a truck or ship down. We typically provide this information, however if the request comes dorm JoeBlow@gmail.com, we question the intentions of the requestor. Fair? Feets31, Ricky Bobby, Rich and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFairbanks Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I have bought lots of different products throughout my lifetime from a lot of different places and have never found it necessary to do anything more than follow the instructions on the packaging. As Adams mentioned an MSDS is usually only requested by places that are transporting or storing huge quantity's. Far more than probably everybody on this forum has. Me personally, I would be more concerned with some of the crap that we as people eat or drink, as opposed to some detailing products that have detailed instructions on proper use printed on the bottle. Don't think I would be eating the clay bar or drinking the grape juice, aka undercarriage spray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Bobby Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I agree with Adam above, unless they are making tons of serious chemicals that are harmful, for the most part I'm not too worried about what is in Rinseless Wash, Detail Spray, VRT, the Car Shampoo, or Undercarriage Spray. He has a point that consumers obtaining MSDS in the open on the forums could easily be picked up by groups trying to reverse engineer their chemicals. If you are worried about a product, why not just prove you are a repeat customer and ask for it on the QT via email or a phone call to the shop? I'm sure they would provide it. MSDS is supposed to be posted by law for lines of products that are geared towards professionals, Adam's caters toward weekend warrior consumers so I don't expect it to be posted on the website. The only products out of Adam's line I would be questioning if there are any dangerous substances are the All Purpose Cleaner, or maybe the Green Wheel Cleaner or Deep Wheel Cleaner. Undercarriage spray is flammable because of the petroleum base but I can't think of many others in the line I'd be worried about. However the active ingredient in Deep Wheel Cleaner is not a known carcinogen, but it is recommended to wear gloves when using it. As far as APC goes, I thought it was pretty Eco-friendly, some professional Meg's products have a real high acidity and I think the Adam's stuff is gentler. For example, Meg's D108 which is on my shelf can literally eat through plastic bottles if its not HDPE, and stain trim and paint if left on too long. Adam's APC is one of few I know of that is safe to wipe down plastic trim with, so I'm not terribly concerned, although don't get me wrong, it would be nice to know. I will give it to Adam though it seems for the most part in his line many of the products are advertised as health and eco-friendly, compared to other brands. For what its worth, anyone ever try to get MSDS from places like Chemical Guys? They basically need an order on company letterhead for the info before they give it to someone willingly. GerryC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I agree with Adam. While Adam isn't trying to be secretive, he has legitimate reasons for asking why anyone would want those. As for "I've had one customer complain about the "smell" of the products. If I had the MSDS it would be easier to calm their mind.", they must have a seriously sensitive nose or you were working in an unventilated area which is NEVER a good idea no matter what you're using even if it's something like Comet! Every product you use in your life has chemicals in them. Every cleaning product, etc. So that statement alone puts me on alert as to your intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HFX Detailing Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 I agree with Adam. While Adam isn't trying to be secretive, he has legitimate reasons for asking why anyone would want those. As for "I've had one customer complain about the "smell" of the products. If I had the MSDS it would be easier to calm their mind.", they must have a seriously sensitive nose or you were working in an unventilated area which is NEVER a good idea no matter what you're using even if it's something like Comet! Every product you use in your life has chemicals in them. Every cleaning product, etc. So that statement alone puts me on alert as to your intentions. Huh? Are you confusing me with the OP, because I am not the one requesting the data sheets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohio Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 We have about .004% of our customers using our goods in a professional setting. Hard to justify the premium price unless the Detailer is not charging a premium, and cheap products can be bought locally without planning or shipping. MSDS sheets are extremely tough to read by anyone other than a chemist. Worse than a legalese contract! MSDS sheets are typically requested by the following groups: 1- Insurance companies of car collectors where large quantities of our goods are stored. 2- Our insurance companies 3- People wanting to knock-off our products 4- organizations wanting to knock-off our products 5- Shipping companies wanting to be sure the chemicals don't light up easily, and burn a truck or ship down. We typically provide this information, however if the request comes dorm JoeBlow@gmail.com, we question the intentions of the requestor. Fair? Add another to the list. My employer requires MSDS on every chemical that enters the building. I have had stuff shipped to work from Adams and I got a warning for shipping stuff without MSDS. So from now on, I paid more to have it shipped home. I had a bottle of detail spray in my tool box, for personal use on said tool-box to keep it clean. When our HR reps went thru our departments and tool boxes looking for chemicals, they noted that a MSDS was not available and asked me to remove it from the building. Now, Adam does state they are available. My employer stated it needed to be easily downloaded from the manufactuer's website. So, I removed it from the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice3Clnr Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Wow! I asked a simple question about obtaining documents that are required to be provided by law, documents that I can use to assess the health and environmental risks of using your products and instead of just telling me how I might obtain them, it appears you have turned this into a public obfuscation. First you cast aspersions on my use of the information by asking why I wanted them. The information is required by OSHA to be provided when requested, I should not have to justify why I want it. But being a nice guy I did that - told you I was concerned with what I am being exposed to by using your products. Still that was not enough? More aspersions... What does it take to get MSDS Sheets out of your company? Then in trying to down play the importance of an MSDS sheet you said this: MSDS sheets are extremely tough to read by anyone other than a chemist. Worse than a legalese contract! 1. This, on whole, is just not true. The sections on Exposures and Health Risks should be written such that the layman can understand them and understand what chemicals they are exposed to, what are appropriate safety measures to take, etc.. These sections should be straight forward and accessible by all. Weren't MSDS sheets created as a result of OSHA regulations as part of the "Worker Right To Know" provisions and as such that is one of their primary purposes - to allow those who work around or use any product to know what they are exposed to and how to protect them self? Sure with many products the risks might be benign, but that doesn't take away a worker's "right to know." 2. But are you implying that I or your other customers are too stupid to read MSDS sheets? One of the key sections of a MSDS sheet is a section on what Personal Protective Equipment is suggested when using the product. I will know how to protect myself when I read the sheet and I will understand the risks of using the product. Someone might say, "just use gloves" which might be directionally correct but some chemicals permeate latex, others permeate nitrile. But I want to go to the source material (the MSDS) and see what the "experts" have written on what I am exposed to and how to protect myself. That is my right. Why say things to try to take away that right or make it difficult to “know?” Why make it difficult for me to protect my health and my family’s health when using your products? I also note that other key sections of an MSDS sheet are the Hazards Identification section with potential health effects, chronic effects, etc. Then there is a First Aid section which identifies appropriate measures in case of an accident. Oh and Handling and Storage sections too. So I don't know why one thinks this is only applicable to shippers,In surers and others and not the end users? Does it take a degree in chemistry to be able to read these sections and understand how to apply first aid? I did not come on this forum to stir up any debate - I came because I made an appropriate request through Adam's channels and had not been sent the information. I figured the public question would get attention – and it did. I was looking for a stand up guy who would tell me how to get the information quickly - that is not what I have found rather it appears I have gotten inferences that I am up to something nefarious, reasons why you don’t want to provide the information and suggestions that I couldn’t understand it if I got it. Jeez. Look, I do not leave decisions on my health open to debate or to public opinion, I like to go to the source material and evaluate the risks myself. I understand that many people may choose to manage their health or risks in their life differently and that is fine, it is just not for me. This is a free country, please do not begrudge me the “right to know” as afforded by current law. We typically provide this information, however if the request comes dorm JoeBlow@gmail.com, we question the intentions of the requestor. Fair? NO! While I can understand several business reasons for your skepticism, however I see many competitors have their MSDS sheets accessible online. Also, I do not believe the law allows you to pick and choose who you send the information to when you receive a valid request. So I am not interested in an online debate, nor scoring points - just being protective of my health and safety. Please provide the MSDS sheets from my request. Thanks! JHL88 and DJ_Progloss 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice3Clnr Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) I'm sure they will provide them to you upon request with your order... . Well I was really hoping they would. A small grassroots start-up style business like this is the kind I like to support. We need more inovators and those willing to take risks and start up businessses. However, when I placed my order in early July, I also requested the MSDS sheets. Adam's Polishes did not send me the MSDS sheets. They did not even respond to my request. Therefore, I came here and asked the question on how to obtain them. Still do not have the MSDS sheets nor do I have a pledge that they will make them available. Edited August 10, 2014 by Novice3Clnr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHL88 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) I have to agree with OP on this one. I've dealt with chemicals most of my career(s) and for me it is also important to know what exactly I'm dealing with, it is ones right as well. OSHA has made these for several reasons and that is one of them. Edited August 9, 2014 by JHL88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2quikta Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Do you also request MSDS sheets for your toothpaste, dishwasher detergent, and Mountain Dew in your fridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holder Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 A MSDS should be available to anyone who requests them. "Your right to know". JHL88, Ricky Bobby and scootertrash19 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFairbanks Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) An MSDS isn't required for chemicals that are deemed non hazardous. And OSHA doesn't require nor encourage keeping and maintaining an MSDS for such chemicals. Not to say that any or all of Adams products fall into this category. Seems like too much work to me to have an MSDS for every chemical I have ever used in my life. Edited August 10, 2014 by LFairbanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFairbanks Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Who do I have to give an MSDS to and what is "downstream flow"? As mentioned previously and discussed below, manufacturers and distributors are under no OSHA obligation to supply MSDS's to consumers. We encourage manufacturers to make MSDS's freely available to everyone, but suggest that the sheets carry a notice explaining that MSDS's are meant for occupational use, not consumer use. http://www.ilpi.com/msds/faq/partb.html MSDS's are not meant for consumers. An MSDS reflects the hazards of working with the material in an occupational fashion. For example, an MSDS for paint is not highly pertinent to someone who uses a can of paint once a year, but is extremely important to someone who does this in a confined space 40 hours a week. See the question "What are my rights to an MSDS?" in the next section of this FAQ for more information. Consumers. As stated previously, many manufacturers or distributors are happy to give an MSDS to anyone who asks but they are under no OSHA obligation to distribute these to consumers. There is your answer. Edited August 10, 2014 by LFairbanks Rich 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txab Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Add another to the list. My employer requires MSDS on every chemical that enters the building. I have had stuff shipped to work from Adams and I got a warning for shipping stuff without MSDS. So from now on, I paid more to have it shipped home. I had a bottle of detail spray in my tool box, for personal use on said tool-box to keep it clean. When our HR reps went thru our departments and tool boxes looking for chemicals, they noted that a MSDS was not available and asked me to remove it from the building. Now, Adam does state they are available. My employer stated it needed to be easily downloaded from the manufactuer's website. So, I removed it from the building. Same story for me. Can't have it shipped to or stored at my place of employment without MSDS on file. That includes being in a company vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunky Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Do you also request MSDS sheets for your toothpaste, dishwasher detergent, and Mountain Dew in your fridge? The MSDS sheets for many consumers products are readily available online. I think they should be required and readily available without any pre-conditions despite the fact that people try to use them for ulterior motives. Edited August 10, 2014 by Bunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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